[lbo-talk] Chavez's socialist world vision

[Somebody Somebody]

Bhaskar: First of all, what you directly said earlier is precisely the underpinning of Third Way, Tony Blair-style politics in both form and content (non-ideological, all that matters is results). 
 
 
 
Somebody: Right, it definitely is their *ideological* underpinnings, but if I have an issue with the Tony Blairs and Bonos of the world it's because their politics don't necessarily lead to the best results. In other words, the left can beat post-ideological liberalism by demonstrating that socialist or social democratic politics would actually do more to change people's lives for the better. 
 
 
 
I know some people think all that matters is the level of intensity of the class struggle and class-for-itself consciousness, but I really think a major reason why worker's movements in China or Thailand or Egypt today don't carry over into even mass socialist parties is because it isn't apparent to regular people that capitalism isn't the best worst option on offer. Mouthing the same old slogans isn't convincing the sections of the intelligentsia needed for a social transformation, and it isn't convincing the new proletarians of the global slums, who are more educated and aware than their predecessors, either. 
 
 
 
Incidentally, I agree that the indicators under Chavez aren't *that* impressive. This a bit of a mystery to me, given the massive amount of social spending that's taken place since the Bolivarian Revolution. Granted Venezuela a decade ago was much more advanced than Cuba in 1959, but it's still odd that in terms of major health indices, the country hasn't done much better than most other middle-income countries did during the 2000's.