[lbo-talk] Chavez's socialist world vision

[c b]

Bhaskar Sunkara :
CB asks: "Could anyone in the real world live up to your standards and
lead a state." No. There is something hyper-idealist about doing the
same thing over and over again and expecting different results; namely
attempting to govern the capitalist state to bring about socialism (if
the extent of your goals are social democratic, never mind, but even
that is suspect with capital flight, globalization, etc).
I'd like to think it's realistic to say that the goal of socialists is
to form an opposition movement *outside of government* in order to
build toward majoritarian support. This means rejecting Luxemburgist
"mass strike" schemes, the Trotskyist "transitional program" to the
left and social democratic coalitionist strategists to the right,
which are all basically "get rich quick schemes." Socialists would
form the opposition in parliament, build organs of the class struggle
and a counter-hegemonic movement from below, but would never assume
that they can take hold and use the existing state (Lenin's *State and
Revolution* was quite good on this point). To govern the capitalist
state is to serve capital, whatever your intentions. The goal is to
smash the capitalist state machinery and do it in a somewhat
coordinated, synchronized basis in the advanced capitalist countries.
Mike Macnair's *Revolutionary Strategy *forms the outline for these
points, subtract some of the nationalism from it and Kautsky's 1909
*Road to Power* does too. But this strategy, that of not being able to
wield the capitalist state to bring about socialism is pretty much the
mainstay of the Lenin-derived left and they are quite right on that
basic point. It is quite utopian, but that's why now is the time to
lay the groundwork for this "strategy of patience." The NPA in France,
perhaps Die Linke in Germany if the left-wing elements win the power
struggle, are the shells for the type of socialist opposition we need.

^^^^^
CB:  Wow ! This is chocked full of good stuff, comrade.  Will deliberate on it.

 I can see how u might think I meant "idealist" in the philosophical
sense, but I said "idealist_ic_".   Unfortunately, these two words are
close "cognates" or whatever.  We _should_ be politically idealistic.

But are u saying Bonapartism was governing the capitalist state to
bring about socialism ? Bonapartists were social democrats ?  That's
not my understanding of Bonapartism.

Good to see appreciation of Lenin in the DSA !  My DSA friends and I
did see and celebrate "Reds" back in the early 80's.

On Lenin and not just taking up the state apparatus as is, he gets
that directly from Marx's discussion of the Paris Commune ( In what
does the heroism of Communards consist ?)