[lbo-talk] Fidel on dolphins & the Cuban model

Jenny Brown jbrown72073 at cs.com
Thu Sep 16 05:20:54 PDT 2010



>CB: Obviously, you are correct. We are not headed to world communism,
because Americans and Europeans are selfish , and aren't about to give up their material superiority, despite the fact that they got that superiority through world conquest. The 100 plus US military bases around the world are not unrelated to the superior US living standards.

The more I've thought about it over the years, the more wrong I think this is. The main reason we in the west ever extracted any goodies on a mass scale was not imperialism but socialism, the threat of it internationally and the movements for it domestically. Britain ripped off plenty from its colonies and yet the working class didn't start benefiting in the slightest until there were international threats of revolution and serious worker unrest.

It's quite possible that we could go back completely--without a threat of socialism we have been getting all the bad parts of living in an empire (domestic racist insanity, long military deployments and the sick, desperate blowback, a looted treasury) and none of the alleged benefits. The most irritating part is that left and right everyone thinks empire is good for the U.S. working class: "Kick their ass and get their gas" on the right; "Draft SUV owners first" on the left. As though Shell exists to provide low-cost gas to patriotic Americans.

So, what do workers in the U.S. have to gain from world socialism?--look what we already gained from socialism in other countries. Charles is right, it can't be sustained in one country or region, which is why we always have to put our shoulders to the wheel. But more socialism abroad has been historically better for us than less.

Jenny Brown

***
>>Mathias Wasser:
>>But Americans and other G8 citizens, including low-skill laborers with
no capital, live much better than the rest of the world; indeed, much better than everyone could live at, given the current physical limits of the world economy. They appear to be doing quite well by the current system, which, I'd hazard to guess, is why they so universally support it.

^^^^^^^
>CB: Yeah, I thought you were sort of going here. I don't claim that
Americans subjectively realize that World Peace or the things Mike B. mentioned are in their objective best or optimum interest, but they are. For one thing, the current material superiority and high living standard will not last forever. Also, humans won't stand to be oppressed and exploited forever. Somewhere deep down , Americans know their fear of Islam is rooted in the wrongs Americans and Europeans have committed in imperialism and colonialism.


>Obviously, you are correct. We are not headed to world communism,
because Americans and Europeans are selfish , and aren't about to give up their material superiority, despite the fact that they got that superiority through world conquest. The 100 plus US military bases around the world are not unrelated to the superior US living standards.



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