[WS:] You tend to put a far more weight in opinion polls than I do. For one thing, blaming the government is a knee jerk popular reaction, especially of those who want quick and simple answers to social problems. You do not need to to look very far to see that - the last midterm election in the US is a good case in point. It therefore does not surprise me when polls show anti-government attitudes when going gets tough. In my mind mind, opinion polls are like measuring shapes of clouds in the sky - perhaps accurate but certainly inconsequential.
I may also add that this whole EU debate gives me a sense of deja vu. Back during the perestroika, I had discussions with a number of Eastern European intellectuals whose opinions toward communism mirrored those expressed here toward EU. The idea that one does not need to tear down the whole bridge to fix potholes in it did not register with these folks. The whole thing was bad and needed to be scraped. When I expressed a view that the thing was not that bad after all, especially comparing to the existing alternatives, and required only fixing a few problems - I was accused of anything from being ignorant to a KGB mole.
Things may change but habits of the heart die hard - it seems.
Wojtek
On Fri, Feb 4, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Marv Gandall <marvgand at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2011-02-03, at 7:22 PM, Wojtek S wrote:
>
> > [WS:] I disagree with Marv that EU was
> > mainly a top-down creation - the project received tremendous popular
> support
> > from certain segments of the population - at least on the continent.
>
> Which doesn't establish, however, that it was not a project mainly
> initiated by the European bourgeoisie to serve its interests. Capitalist
> governments which preside over capitalist states enjoy varying degrees of
> public support depending on circumstances. In any event, I don't know how
> your claim of "tremendous" mass support for European unification can be
> reconciled with the rejection of a top-down proposal for a European
> constitution by French, Dutch, and Irish voters in 2005, and the subsequent
> cancellation of planned referenda in other EU states for fear of the same
> result.
>
> We can expect public support has faded further in the wake of the financial
> crisis. The early eurosceptics who suggested that the economic disparities
> in the eurozone would inevitably create great strains and perhaps doom the
> European project were scoffed at and isolated. Now even the Economist,
> pondering the widespread discontent both in Germany and in the weaker
> peripheral countries bearing the brunt of the crisis, has concluded that
> "some are beginning to contemplate the unthinkable" - the collapse or
> fragmentation of the eurozone and the wider union itself.
>
> It probably won't come to that, but even before the crisis, there is
> evidence showing that majority support for the Union was accompanied by the
> perception that its benefits were mainly accruing to the rich. A 2006 poll
> found that nearly 80% of respondents felt the EU was dominated by business
> interests and that while "the majority of EU citizens see themselves as
> pro-European...the benefits of EU membership are not clear enough. This is a
> particular problem with people from the first 15 member states." (
> http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/imported/what-europe-s-citizens-really-feel-about-the-eu/55006.aspx
> ).
>
> That was when the good times were rolling. It's questionable whether that
> popular majority still exists.
>
>
>
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