[lbo-talk] Definition of nation (was as if on cue)

[Wendy Lyon]

On 4 February 2011 21:00, Wojtek S <wsoko52 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wendy: "Why would it?"
>
> [WS:] Perhaps it is an old stereotype, like British cooking.  As they say,
> Brits ruled India for over 100 years and never learned how to use spices -
> which tells volumes about both :).
>
> But more seriously, I never understood the obstinacy of some segments of the
> Euro left toward the EU.  I understand the reservations against the Eurozone
> and giving up national fiscal policy - but that is more of a concern to
> social democrats.  To me, the defining characteristic of the left is
> internationalism, and EU made a tremendous progress toward
> internationalization of Europe.  Obviously, there is still much to be done
> in that area - but EU, or even more the Schengen Agreement, resulted in
> cross border "human exchange" on a scale never seen before in that part of
> that world.  All major EU cities are very cosmopolitan, you can hear a dozen
> of different languages in the streets - and that by itself reduced
> insularity.  I travel to EU quite often, and I see a big difference in
> attitudes toward people who do not speak the native tongue of the land
> between now and 20 or so years ago.

Marv and Angelus have already addressed the left's major issue with
regard to the EU - the neoliberal agenda - and I don't have much more
to add to that. But, I think you're mistaken to assume that retention
of national fiscal policy is a concern for social democrats. The
social democrats in the EU are in fact strongly behind monetary union.
Opposition from the further left is sometimes a matter of principle
(what you might term "nationalistic" reasons, what others might see as
localising democracy) and sometimes based on the simple fact that
monetary union has and will continue to operate in the interests of
the Euro-elite. The austerity measures have been brought in under
absolutely massive pressure from the ECB, in order to protect the
single currency. Now maybe they would have been brought in if there
was no single currency, too, but at least then there would have been
other options available and the opposition could realistically promote
those other options.

On the issue of British insularity, it seems to me that you're taking
a tautological view - they're opposed to the EU because they're
insular and the fact that they're insular can be shown by their
opposition to the EU. But, you know, the streets of London are as
cosmopolitan and multilingual as anywhere else in the EU - despite
their supposed insularity (and the fact they are not part of
Schengen).