Creep factor - what would you call someone who posts repeatedly comparing dairy products based on healthy human milk as opposed to those nasty products of the cow. I don't know what's driving Joseph's obsession there, and don't want to.
Jordan's more complicated, but not much. We'll start with his bullshit calculations about how much milk a nursing mother produces per day (8-9 oz per feeding, 8-12 times per day). Sorry, but way back in the day I was doing all the child care for an infant, which meant that my partner had to express milk constantly. The freezer was full of little bags for me to thaw, heat, and use.
8-12 cups per day? The voice of ignorance. And then we can add to that the throwaway line that full-time infant care is 88% free time. Nonsense, and offensive nonsense.
And then there's the bullshit about the economic benefits, all of which reduces to the old anti-Marxist canard: "how can workers be exploited when they voluntarily choose to work, which obviously means they're better off than they would be otherwise?" If you really need a formal proof to see through this, then you can always point to John Roemer's work demonstrating that capitalist exploitation and mutual gains from trade are not contradictory. Not that Jordan knows any of this literature, or particularly cares - he was just baiting Joanna and playing a cheap game of gotcha. Likewise with his "how much would you have to be paid for it not be exploitation" throwaway line. Joanna pointed out that this is just a variant of the cheap whore vs. expensive whore "joke". And Roemer provides an answer again - it ceases being exploitative when the amount you earn from it exceeds the amount you could earn by withdrawing society's per capita quantity of capital and using that capital plus your own labor to live.
Again, not a literature Jordan knows or cares about, since he was only interested scoring cheap points and waving his clever dick around.
So yeah, creepy obsession, complete ignorance of basic biological facts or the kind of labor infant care entails, plus cheap point scoring right out of the Milton Friedman playbook. Fucking load of honking goose turds, I say.
----- Original Message ---- From: shag carpet bomb <shag at cleandraws.com> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org; lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org Sent: Mon, February 28, 2011 4:50:11 PM Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Breast milk ice cream...
i don't know either. I do know that the word mansplaining makes me want to vomit on someone's shoes, especially when it's used without fucking explaining why they were ostensibly engaged in mansplanation (sp?)
fuckin' 'splain me Lucy. jeez.
At 08:40 PM 2/26/2011, Dissenting Wren wrote:
>I can't decide whether the mansplaining that's been going on in this
>thread is
>offensive or creepy. Probably both. Jordan - offensive. Joseph - creepy.
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Jordan Hayes <jmhayes at j-o-r-d-a-n.com>
>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>Sent: Sat, February 26, 2011 6:59:56 PM
>Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Breast milk ice cream...
>
>Joanna writes:
>
> > Look, this isn't about a high class hooker making a
> > thousand dollars for two-hour date.
>
>Ok, just so long as you're still talking about price and not what she's
>gotta do
>for the $1k. I know there's a lot of things I've turned down in my life
>to do
>for $500/hr.
>
> > This is about a lactating mother making about seven bucks
> > for a cup of breast milk.
>
>Well, like I said, it's $13 ($1.60 * 8; a cup is still 8oz, even in London;
>whodathunk? I think they really mean "1GBP/oz" but still). And really,
>we're
>just dealing with a single data point, so there's not much of a 'market
>price'
>that has been discovered. But okay.
>
> > Best case scenario, she could make about 20 bucks a day.
>
>Really? I thought it's not uncommon to feed 8-12 times per day; most of the
>things I looked at said to be prepared for ~2hr feeding cycles, so that's
>got to
>at least be in the middle realm of possibility. And of course feeding
>twins is
>not an uncommon situation at all. And the more you feed, the more you
>produce:
>bonus! Kind of a supply and demand kind of deal.
>
>Oh, I hate doing this, but how about some facts?
>
>http://www.babycenter.com/404_how-long-does-pumping-take_8916.bc
>
>So that looks like maybe 8-9oz in ~15 minutes. Now clearly you can't get a
>quart in a particular hour, but you certainly could get one over the
>course of a
>"work day" that is 88% idle.
>
>What if the woman *was the owner of the ice cream store* and that $22/scoop
>(again, probably 14GBP) retail price was pure, uh, creamy profit?
>
> > To what kind of woman do you think 20 bucks/day would make a difference?
>
>$20 for a very part-time job is, as you know, pretty good in this
>economy. But
>this isn't about me; this is about you: if it were $100 would your
>position be
>different? At what price point would your objection cease?
>
>Thanks,
>
>/jordan
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