[lbo-talk] James McMurtry - "We can't make it here"??

123hop at comcast.net 123hop at comcast.net
Sun Jul 3 19:51:01 PDT 2011


I'm lost. Are you guys saying that nature is as socially constructed as anything else? Then it would follow that there's nothing that a given system can alienate us from. Yes?

But we also know that

-- it matters whether you sleep at night or during the day. I worked graveyard; I can vouch for this.

-- it matters whether you breastfeed or bottlefeed a child.

-- it matters whether you eat junk food or unprocessed food

-- there's jet lag

All these examples suggest that there is a natural norm and that straying from it exacts a price.

Also: "The sooner we discard the vapid notion that one set of social relations is more "natural" than another, the better."

So, there's no difference between having sex for lust/love and having sex for money?

???

Joanna

----- Original Message ----- From: "Miles Jackson" <cqmv at pdx.edu>

shag carpet bomb wrote:


>
> But for another thing, I think it's really weird that anyone buys into
> or perhaps not believing but using language anyway to suggest that
> tastes, desires, emotions, etc. are foundational, fixed and secure in
> some primal way that isn't touched by social relations. So untouched,
> it's in nature. But after all this time, isn't it clear that there is no
> unmediated access to "nature". By the time we claim a "nature" out there
> for us to find and get in touch wich, we've already created "nature" and
> claimed ourselves as somehow separate from it. Clearly "nature" is
> nature for us, and clearly social relations are part of what makes
> nature appear to us as something alien, out there, something that's
> separate from us and with which we must get in touch.

Yes. Putting your arm up a ewe's vagina is just as much a product of social relations as DJing at a NY club or teaching a freshman poetry class or roofing a house. The claim that there is a pure, unmediated nature we need to "get back to" is--ironically--a precipitate of alienation in a capitalist society. The sooner we discard the vapid notion that one set of social relations is more "natural" than another, the better.

Miles ___________________________________ http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk



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