I agree with this. Completely. But there is always a but.
The few people on this list who do not know it have proved quite immune to all persuasion by fact or argument. And they are neither fools nor knaves, though often one gets tempted to think that. So we keep coming back to the question, How and Why do people change. And the evidence keeps piling up, however they change, it is not through argument or persuasion. (Qualification: Those who agree on a number o f fundamental facts and principles c an and often do persuade each other on secondary matters. That's why political debate within a collective can be so powerful.) And though people can almost never (I suppose one must keep the "almost" as a hedge) be argued into changing any fundamental (like being attached to the DP at the hip) through persuasion, they nevertheless do change, sometimes quickly, sometimes quickly in large numbers. That is far more worth exploring than endlessly telling each other how bad the president and the capitalists he serves are. We (almost all) do know that - and that is why I keep asking (I hope more politely this time around) why are posters doing that?
I do have an anecdote that is perhaps useful (though I don't know the details yet and don't know how it's going to unfold). One of the prime founders of BNCPJ, a Quaker and an English Professor, a really good leader and thinker, drifted away after 2008. He was a powerful example of being gued at the hip to the DP. He has been writing letters to thelocal paper off and on over the last 2 years defending Obama. This summer he visited Palestine! And what I understand is that it really shook him somehow, and he is going to return to BNCPJ activity. I'm going to be very very v ery cautious not to say or hint I told yous o. This needs to be investigated slowly and patiently. And I'm sure as hell not going to argue with about the DP. I will be discussing the world with him. We shall see. By working with BNCPJ, by talking about plans for this or that with us, by merely coming even to the monthly 30-minute demo he is 'objectively' attacking the president, and he is going to be trying hard (because he is a thinker) to bring practice & thought into alignment. Interesting. Far more interesting than throwing spit balls at Obama, on this list or anyplace else.
Carrol
On 7/12/2011 8:12 PM, Doug Henwood wrote:
On Jul 12, 2011, at 9:02 PM, Carrol Cox wrote:
The President of the United States is a friend of capital, regardless of who he/she is. Not really very intersting.
You know that. I know that. Most of the people reading this know that. But all the potential allies for people like us - the near-left that you often identify as the best targets for recruitment - don't know that.
Doug _____
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