[lbo-talk] Libya

[Wojtek S]

[WS:] I think it is more complicated than that.  Both options are evil
but you go with the one that you see as a lesser evil.  US has the
proven track record of not only being the most bellicose nation in
modern history but quite willing to inflict serious destruction in the
pursuit of its imperial objectives.  Therefore, those who define
themselves as anti-imperialist left would undoubtedly see the civil
war in a Third wold country as a much lesser evil than the US
intervention.

There are certain assumption about the intrinsic value of national
sovereignty that underlie this position - which I do not make (I am
not sure about Carrol & others) - hence my position on this issue is
far more ambivalent.  I am anti-nationalist so I view national
sovereignty as conditional at best.  I can envision supporting an
aggressive war against another sovereign entity, if that war can
further the attainment of some desirable social of political purpose
(e.g. a socialist revolution or stopping a genocidal regime in its
tracks.)  However, I do not see that any of such purposes apply in
Libya.  Gaddafi is a bloody tyrant, but the 'revolutionaries' are not
any better - they are basically former elites who want back they
former power.  I can see why EU is nervous about the whole Middle
Eastern development - but there is not much they can do about, so the
kick the dog (Gaddafi.) I do not think that US has big imperial plans
about Libya either - they do it pretty much for the same reasons as
the EU or perhaps they simply provide mercenary services to the EU for
which they expect to be compensated in one form or another.

In sum - this is a story in which all characters are villains - so the
only reasonable option is to watch and withhold judgment.

Wojtek

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Bryan Atinsky <bryan at alt-info.org> wrote:
> I'm seriously interested in your understanding of this. If the US and company didn't intervene and the uprising was completely crushed, that would be good? Let them fight it out and if they are crushed, we anti-imperialist leftists can at least say we truly supported their autonomy...it resulted in defeat, but yeah spirit...hooray for giving it your all!!
>
> ??????
>
> Bryan
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Mar 22, 2011, at 8:20, Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>>
>> FWIW, my own take on the events, part of a lively discussion on Louis
>> Proyect's Marxmail list which has reflected the deep divide within the
>> international left on this issue.
>>
>> I would deny that there is a divide on the left. Anyone who approves of U.s.
>> aggression is simply not a leftist.
>>
>> Carrol
>>
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