At some point the demand for more and more and more and more facts becomes an almost deliberate filibuster. At the very least it denotes either ignorance of or contempt for the tasks of leftists who are engaged in trying to build resistance to the monster of world capital or to ameliorate on a local level at least the harm it continuously imposes on all.
Facts are important - but endless demand for more and more facts is a serious aid to capitalist oppression.
There needs to be some sense of priority, of separating the relatively few facts needed from the infinite deluge of facts available.
Carrol
-----Original Message----- From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org] On Behalf Of OECDObserver world Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 12:42 PM To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Rolling Stone: Kill Team
What I said was the present Canadian government could not locate Libya on a map before the onset of the civil war. That a handful of Canadian business people who could may or may not donate to the Conservative party of Canada is a moot point. To the extent that this government has any foreign policy with respect to North Africa in general and Libya is a function of its default stance. Pro-resource extraction, pro-US foreign policy, pro Nato and pro-military spending. None of which have anything to do with the value of civilian lives.
The point was not that the Canadian or any western government does not have specific interests motivating violence in foreign countries the point is that they almost *always* do and we do not need to waste time debating if Suncor or Bechtel or ACME universal minor mega Corp is behind it or not. Nor do we need to waste time taking very serious positions on whether it is the oil they want or a price move on oil, access to cheap labour or the cheapening of domestic labour supplies blah blah blah.
As an example, Suncor does 330,000 bpd from the Alberta oil sands alone. Total oil sands production is over 1.2 million bpd. So a 5% increase in prices from global supply shortages is better than 50,000bpd and it gets approval from the whole sector not just one company. Foreign policy is about heads we win tails you loose.
I am not going to spend much time chasing down the pissy little facts of why this or that foreign adventure is equally as cynical as the last. The point is they are cynical. We know this and we know that the global capitalist state system is structurally configured as such. Now if a need yet another example to make the argument that the state system is cynical then the details of Libya become relevant just as rising to the sun confirms today is pretty much like yesterday. But in general I do not wake up to confirm this less than novel fact.
If people want to make a cogent case why this time is different the onus is on them to make the case. Pace Wojtek, I am open to the argument but it is goping to have to be very well structured and infinetely verifiable.
On 29 March 2011 10:14, Peter Fay <peterrfay at gmail.com> wrote:
> Canadian government has no knowledge of Libya? Seems strange, since
> Canadian capital knows quite a bit about Libya - after all, they have over
> $2 billion in Libyan deposits in their banks and lots of Libyan oil and
> extraction services.
>
> SNC Lavin has about $1b in projects in Libya, and Suncor pumps 50,000
> barrels a day from Libya - more than the largest American oil company
> (Conoco-Philips).
>
> Can you explain again why you guys are so interested in not 'wasting time
> studying the alleged facts'? Seems that might lead one, for example, to
> grossly underestimate Canada's interests in fostering war in Libya.
>
>
>
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2011/02/28/f-canadian-companies-in-lib
ya.html
>
> A handful of major Canadian companies, including engineering company
> SNC-Lavalin and oil firm Suncor Energy, have substantial projects in
Libya.
> Oil ventures in Libya typically require foreign firms to pay cash bonuses
> and put up capital in return for a share of proceeds from a joint venture.
> Neither SNC-Lavalin nor Suncor have said if any of their transactions have
> been blocked by the sanctions.
>
>
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-notebook/canada-freezes-
23-billion-in-libyan-assets/article1925091/
>
> On Mon, Mar 28, 2011 at 10:22 PM, OECDObserver world <
> ocdeobserver at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> > I am with Carrol,
> >
> > The present Canadian government could not locate Libya on map prior to
> the
> > start of the civil war. They are busy trying to sell the Canadian
> > electorate on a fleet of new F-38s, and pursue deep integration with the
> > US.
> >
>
> --
> Peter Fay
> http://theclearview.wordpress.com
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
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