[lbo-talk] Spain election

[Wojtek S]

[WS:]  I thought I left the key part in. You do not need to remind me
about the  shortcomings of the existing party and electoral system, I
argued that on this list time and again.  However, I am also well
aware that such views are those of a minority.  Most people I know
believe in the electoral system even though they may disagree with the
outcome of a particular election.  The only people who openly reject
the electoral system are either lumpens who do not give a flying
fucking about most other things that the mainstream population values
or blasé intellectuals who adopt extreme views to look cool.

Most people who bother to vote do so because they see some value in
it.  What baffles me is why people who are unhappy about austerity
measures vote for the party that is almost certain to bring more
austerity measures.  If they were disillusioned about the system, as
you claim, they would stay home, no?

I have a reason to think that many people actually accept the
conservative line about the need for austerity, and do so not out of
their stupidity - or "false consciousness" as many lefties would call
it - but because they believe that making sacrifices is the right
thing to do.  They are not homo economicus who care only about their
wallets, but homo sapiens who take what's right into consideration,
which has nothing to do with maximizing profits.  I also happen to
think that the right understands this very well and makes arguments
that appeal to the ethical sense of 'what is right' - while the left
and liberals are basically clueless about it and expect to win people
by appeals to their economic interests.  So the way I see this problem
is to how change this, how to make a left argument that appeals to
most people's sense what's right rather posting a laundry list of
demands of a fundamentally pecuniary nature.

Wojtek

n Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
> One short sentence in my post, and you prefer to cut the key part of it.
>
> Carrol
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of Wojtek S
> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 12:21 PM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Spain election
>
> Carrol: "Voting is meaningless"
>
> [WS:]  You are the 1% on this, I am afraid.
>
> Wojtek
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 1:05 PM, Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>> Voting is meaningless except as a "throw the bums out" symbol. The Spanish
>> voters are being quite sensible. Your cliché does not apply.
>>
>> Carrol
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
>> On Behalf Of Wojtek S
>> Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2011 11:52 AM
>> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>> Subject: [lbo-talk] Spain election
>>
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-15809062
>>
>> [WS:]  So, when people are unhappy with socialists over austerity
>> measures they vote in conservatives.  They may as well cut their noses
>> off to spite their faces.
>>
>> Wojtek
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