So, what he seems to be rejecting is the idea of a prefigurative politics where you try, as best you can, to live as if you already had the good society you hoped to build. Doug seems to reject this approach as northing more than an ethics - an ineffective politics and, in fact, not a politics at all - if I understand him.
> Of course my argument, essentially, was that ethical principles did
> not
> exist; hence an ethical ARGUMENT had nothing to 'stand' on. I (contra
> Ted; with Ollman) assume Marx felt the same. Everyone, including Marx
> &
> Engels, uses/used ethical language in agitation. There are quite a few
> statements scattered through the works of M, E, Lenin, etc defending
> moral/emphatic/emotive terminooogy in agitation.
>
> I like the perspective Angelus suggests towards OWS when he calls it
> Our
> Father Gapon. Trotsky argued that there would be no mord Father
> Gapons;
> i.e., Trotsky thought principled, complex Marxist analysis and goals
> and
> organization would have to do what Gapon had done. For that Lenin
> called Trotsky a BLOWHARD.
>
> Carrol
>
> On 10/19/2011 6:48 PM, shag carpet bomb wrote:
>> question, I have lots but I have overposted for too many days in a
>> row...
>>
>> one, though. when you guys get into a discussion of discord among
>> the
>> panelists, SA defends this discord by saying that it looks
>> rancorous,
>> but underneath it all, there is a solidarity, a sense of mutual
>> support, something.... I didn't transcribe what you said SA.
>>
>> What do you think accounts for that?
>>
>> Why is that happening. It doesn't just magically appear, it's not a
>> property of simply being y'all's wonderful selves. Or is it? What is
>> it that makes you all feel a sense that you would, to paraphrase,
>> come
>> to each other's things...
>>
>> I'd also love it if doug would answer my question about ethics v
>> politics. In the past, Doug, you've objected to carrol's complaints
>> about moralizing, and you silent a few years ago when I made a
>> sustained year long argument against the ethical practice embraced
>> by
>> radical/cultural feminists, so I'm curious what *your* critique of
>> ethics is.
>>
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
-- http://cleandraws.com Wear Clean Draws ('coz there's 5 million ways to kill a CEO)