And why this fetish of "demands." There certainly is value in discussing demands; there is no point whatever at this point in "making demands." And there is even less point to the endless carping over programmatic minutiae on this list.
I'm getting thoroughly disgusted.
Carrol
-----Original Message----- From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org] On Behalf Of Michael Pollak Sent: Monday, October 24, 2011 1:55 AM To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] those demands? forget about 'em!
On Sun, 23 Oct 2011, Julio Huato wrote:
> If the Left, the consciously socialist caucus of the workers' movement,
> wants to advance, then it needs to engage each given popular eruption --
> and that is what OWS is -- in its own terms, respect its inner
> dynamics....Work to expand the movement *within* the movement,
> respecting its ways
This is exactly what is going on here. There's seems to be some misconception that the Demands Group is a bunch of outsiders. It is not. This is a argument within the occupy wall street movement.
The Demands Group is a working group just like other working group. This evening I spent 3 hours in the park taking part in their meeting, and I can attest, it was run scrupulously according to consensus procedures under experienced facilitators. And frankly it was one of the most satisfying consensus meetings I've taken part in. There were 60 people, there were heated disagreements, the proposals and counterproposals were modified so that they visibly came closer together while retaining what emerged as their respective most crucial points. And while each individual proposal was defeated or unable to get off the ground by itself, the final joint/modified proposal passed by a modified consensus, i.e., 75%. And it was a consensus in the real sense of the term. It was strongly supported. The opposed sides had come together. The final product was only possible because both sides had convinced each other that they would carry out their side of the bargain in good faith. And you could feel that everyone involved was palpably chuffed at the end. Tired, wired and cold, but chuffed.
The basic upshot is that there will be tons of liasing in the next few days with other occupation working groups and with community groups; there will also be teach-ins at Zucotti Park and canvassing there; we will encourage representatives of all these groups to join us for our meeting on Thursday with their proposed amendments or concerns or questions (or support for the proposal at it stands -- also an option); everyone present at the Thursday meeting will vote on amendments to the proposal that grow out of this liasing; and we will present the amended proposal to the general assembly on Sunday at 7pm, where it will be argued at length, amended as the GA sees fit, and voted on, according to consensus rules. (Important aside: switching to modified consensus when you can't attain full consensus, and having this identified as three quarters approval (and not a person less, seems clearly already SOP in many OWS working groups. It is not a new innovation invented by the Demands Group.)
The OWS General Assembly has never been made up simply of people who sleep in the park. The General Assembly has always explicitly been made out of whoever shows up for the meeting that day. This is part of its anarchist nature, and part of the whole idea of a prefigurative experience: anyone is free to take part and be transformed through transforming. (And it is just as much a part of working groups. In the Demands Group tonight, three quarters of the people there hadn't been to prior meetings, but everyone had full voting, talking and blocking rights.) The Demands Group today contained 24/7 occupiers; people who sleep at home but participate daily; up through people who were energized to participate for the first time tonight precisely because the ideas of demands in general or these particular demands excited them.
So this isn't an outsider group operating by principles foreign to it. This is the occupation operating by its own principles. It is a discussion and argument within the occupation.
And BTW, if anyone feels like a visit to OWS anytime soon, Sunday at 7pm would be a great time.
Michael
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