Carrol
On 10/27/2011 7:49 PM, shag carpet bomb wrote:
> Doug:
> <>
> <> On Oct 27, 2011, at 7:39 PM, Dennis Claxton wrote:
> <>
> <>> Mine would be that a day or two or go you were asking who Jodi Dean
> <>> was and now suddenly you know her well enough to brand her a red-hot
> <>> sternly orthodox Leninist, who is moving her way down the academic
> <>> ladder. And all that based on apparently slippery reading of her
> <>> blog.
> <>
> <> Man, people do love to hate on Jodi. Me, I like her a lot. She's even
> <> slept in our guest room, and is always welcome to return.
> <>
> <> Doug
>
> Oh for christ sake. You just pulled the EffBee Stunt. Legitimate
> criticism breaks out about some proposition, idea, or theory and
> people say, "Why you hating on me." "Why you hatin' on X" Talk about
> good fodder from some blog theory about the depoliticization of public
> life!
>
> It is the most assinine behavior because it is an attempt to halt
> reasoned debate. It's a form of pre-emptive ad hominmen: ignore the
> arguments against ideas and positions, pretend the problem people are
> having is with a person or personality.
>
> I mean, everyone who's ever disagreed with you should insist on a
> sleepover, that way you'll never say a critical word about any idea
> they advance.
>
> Meanwhile, one of the more fascinating things about Polletta's
> argument is that what was a root in the demise of 60s movements was
> the fact that they had no models for creating consensus democracy. The
> rejected the Old Left's methods but had no other models, so they used
> what they knew: friendship as a model for solidarity.
>
> This created problems for expanding the organization. As newcomers
> entered the fold, they were often more ideologically aligned with the
> old-timers, but couldn't break into the friendship network. It was the
> model of friendship - and a desire to uphold it at all costs -- that
> lead to the hidden networks behind the scenes where decisions got made
> in private, just among friends, that folks here have worried about.
>
> It's admirable that you defend friends. I'm a mama bear about that
> myself. I like Carrol and awful lot and I think that sentiment is
> returned. We've had some knock down drag out fights but I think it's
> safe to say we've learned from each other. I trust that, if I advance
> a position he disagree with, he give me crap. Thank the Dead Guy on
> aStick for that.
>
> But it's horseshit to close down debate by saying, as the moderator
> and owner of this list, that somehow we're attacking Dean as a person,
> somehow defiling her very niceness, when some of us have been taking
> her ideas seriously and engaging them. It'd be unfortunate if what she
> goes to forums and panels for is to have people say, "Hey Jodi is a
> nice person. Stop that." I can't think of anything that would feel
> more infantilizing, more Chivalrous Charlie, as if the person
> defending me hasn't a word to say about my ideas and can only defend
> me on the basis of my being "nice."
>
> One thing about what I've heard of her on her show: she's a thoughtful
> person who tries to embody the ideal of scholarship and engaged
> fallibilistic pluralism. As an author and thinker, I suspect that
> she's fully capable of engaging arguments in order to make her
> position stronger.
>
>