Whether or not there 'really is' some 'absolute' rationality, human conceptions of what is rational change continuously. (After all, there are those who really believe that letting market mechanisms establish human priorities is rational.*) Somewhere in the Cantos Pound quotes a German officer saying, "Here, none of that mathematical music." It was a comment on Mozart. So that officer (a) rejected "rational" music, (b) thought the rational was the mathematical, and thought Mozart's music was mathematical.It is thus irrelevant to Michael's argument whether or not there is such a thing as rational music.
Carrol
On 9/16/2011 9:54 PM, Michael Pollak wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Sep 2011, Michael Smith wrote:
>
>> I'd be curious to know what makes one style of music more 'rational'
>> than another. In what way is say a Haydn symphony more rational than a
>> ricercar by Frescobaldi or a motet by Ockeghem?
>
> Solving the pythagorean comma thingy? After that, the circle of fifths
> exactly chimes with the octaves, making modern harmony possible (because
> now you can modulate using the same instruments rather than needing to
> grab new ones).
>
> I'm perfectly open to the idea that you can define rationality
> differently (and that sufficient unto every culture is the rationality
> unto). But I think what mostly matters here is the "sound of regularity"
> for Joanna, who has grown up in that system, and who seems attracted to
> music that sounds less regular by its criteria -- which unites middle
> eastern music with Renaissance motets.
>
> Another ways to think of it are parts that seem (to the modern listener,
> socialized as we are) more independent and less subordinated to, and
> contrained by, the pattern of the whole.
>
> Michael
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