> You left out the most important thing - the existence of left mass
> movement with specific demands. Without that no amount of crisis will
> drive the system to adapt even mildly left solutions. If faced with a
> truly radical left mass movement with real power, even a mild crisis
> could be used to extract some concessions from the ruling class. when
> Doug describes the degeneracy or decadence of our ruling class or
> power elite, I think an argument could be made that a lot of what they
> do today they always would have done in the absence of any left
> threat, and that to the extent they have changed goal and character,
> it is due to too long without a threat from the left. I'm guess I"m
> making an argument that a strong and vibrant left movement plays an
> essential role in capitalism.and is part of the capitalist system.
> When capitalism defeats the left to the point that(as in the U.S)
> there is not left but only leftists, or as in Europe a left exists,
> but one so weak it can't do much more than leftists in the U.S. it
> destroys something vital to its own long term survival.
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Marv Gandall <marvgand at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 2011-09-22, at 5:49 PM, Carrol Cox wrote:
> >
> >> Yes. But I don't admit that the poor policies come from lack of
> intelligence. They have _some_ sort of material base, and I have seen no
> real efforts to identify that base. Some sort of systematic pressure on
> capitalist action and thought is operating. (Nor do I admit it is because of
> the Yahoos. There is no real opposition to the Yahoos -- and that needs
> explanation. I have seen none.
> >
> >
> > There is not the same urgency to resuscitate and reform the system as
> there was in the 30's, because the the economic and political crisis, while
> provoking great anxiety, has to date not been as severe as the Great
> Depression, and the capitalists are still hoping to somehow muddle through.
> >
> > If official unemployment rises to 25% from 9%, if 50% rather than less
> than 1% of banks fail, if the economy contracts by 25% after recovering from
> a less than 5% fall, if prices drop by 25% rather than remaining stable, if
> the stock market falls by 90%, if there is a wave of bankruptcies by today's
> cash-rich corporations, if a resulting movement of the unemployed and an
> organized anticapitalist left begin to grow, etc. etc., then you will have
> the material base for more radical action by the system to save itself.
> > ___________________________________
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> >
>
>
>
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