[lbo-talk] the "principles of solidarity"

[Wojtek S]

Robert: "  Additionally, I think that deliberative democracy, through its
difficulties and demands, is an extraordinarily productive
epistemological device.  It really demands that you think differently
about processes of discussion and debate, about one's relationship to
forms of collectivity.  When one first enters into these processes,
there is frequently a lot of discomfort, but I think that can be made
productive, both at the individual and the collective effort."

[WS:] Agreed.  But it also extremely time and effort demanding, which
makes it unsustainable in a long run.  People need to go on with their
lives, not just spend all their time deliberating - especially issues
that are prone to the free rider effect.  That is why there not that
many historical societies where deliberative democracy survived for an
extended period of time.

To phrase it differently, any political or social system that
constantly requires extraordinary effort from ordinary people is not
sustainable in a long run.  Capitalism requires the opposite (consume
and leave the rest to us) and that explains, in large part, its
successful spread despite it obvious failures.

Alan: "The mere fact that he can imagine deliberative democracy in
academic settings, and nowhere else"

[WS:]  So where are those societies where deliberative democracy is or
historically has been thriving?  Please do tell.

Wojtek