There seems to be a few biases here, that we should be careful about:
* Focussing on consumption when criticizing capitalism, rather than
production. (Dissatisfied consumer vs. frustrated producer.)
* Decisionmaking is real effort, not working-class labor.
* Not noticing there's immense efforts to maintain the status quo
(huge incarceration, etc). If there's immense efforts to defend the
status quo, there's probably immense efforts to attack it.
* Not considering that more democracy may increase people's free
time. (As it has with the 40 hour workweek.)
All the best,
Tj
On Tue, Sep 27, 2011 at 12:23 AM, Wojtek S <wsoko52 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert: " Additionally, I think that deliberative democracy, through its
> difficulties and demands, is an extraordinarily productive
> epistemological device. It really demands that you think differently
> about processes of discussion and debate, about one's relationship to
> forms of collectivity. When one first enters into these processes,
> there is frequently a lot of discomfort, but I think that can be made
> productive, both at the individual and the collective effort."
>
> [WS:] Agreed. But it also extremely time and effort demanding, which
> makes it unsustainable in a long run. People need to go on with their
> lives, not just spend all their time deliberating - especially issues
> that are prone to the free rider effect. That is why there not that
> many historical societies where deliberative democracy survived for an
> extended period of time.
>
> To phrase it differently, any political or social system that
> constantly requires extraordinary effort from ordinary people is not
> sustainable in a long run. Capitalism requires the opposite (consume
> and leave the rest to us) and that explains, in large part, its
> successful spread despite it obvious failures.
>
> Alan: "The mere fact that he can imagine deliberative democracy in
> academic settings, and nowhere else"
>
> [WS:] So where are those societies where deliberative democracy is or
> historically has been thriving? Please do tell.
>
> Wojtek
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