[lbo-talk] Oliver Stone's first episode

andie_nachgeborenen andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com
Tue Dec 4 01:27:10 PST 2012


No one knows how many Soviet dead there were. A usual estimate is about 25 million, but I have seen credible estimates of up to 50 million. I usually use the lower figures. And you are right about the USSR having to be built twice. I'd differ with your characterization of it as socialist in any sense that socialists have traditionally advocated, but it cannot be denied that whatever it was-- I call it Stalinism --it had tremendous successes and remarkable resilience in the face of terrible adversity, inflicted from abroad and at home.

Like you my formal education about the Eastern Front was scanty, biased,and propagandistic. I made it a special study, therefore, when I moved to the left, and now know way too much about it, though I have not kept up with the scholarship in the last decade.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 3, 2012, at 3:27 PM, c b <cb31450 at gmail.com> wrote:


> Chuck Grimes
>
>
> In my remembered school histories the Russians and especially the
> Chinese are merely blank spots. There were a few mentions of southern
> China, Burma, and very distant US airfields. As for Russia I had no
> idea at all of the relative numbers. Stone uses the figure of 27
> million Russian dead. These are tremendous numbers I only came across
> sometime in 1990s.
>
> ^^^^^
> CB: I've been using the 27 million figure since this list started.
> The destruction of economic infrastructure was gargantuan. Few people
> take account of the fact the SU had to start almost from square one
> after The Great Patriotic War when they point to the fall of the SU in
> 1989. The industrial giant SU had to be built twice. It burned them
> out. It was not a failure of socialism qua socialism , but of
> socialism bludgeoned by capitalism.
>
> The Soviets inflicted 90% of the Nazis casualties. So, clearly it was
> the Red Army that defeated the Nazis. The Western front was tiny
> compared to the Eastern front.
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