[WS:] Can you tell me about underachievement in other professions and how it compares to teachers? And while doing this, can you tell me what share of the teaching profession in SA is female?
In the US it is 75% on average, comparing to the 47% national average, and 12% of architects, 10% of civil engineers, and 32% of physicians http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0616.pdf. This, in my view, explains the zeal of (mostly male) politicians and educational "reformers" to regulate the teaching profession while the other ones are largely self-regulated. It is really very simple - power and social status. All the meritocracy concerns are just bullshit to cover this basic fact up - not worth the paper on which it is written.
Wojtek
PS. This is a peer discussion group, not a grade or graduate school. We are all equals here - except Doug who wields the power of pulling the plug;). Comments on how much others do or do not know are not appropriate here.
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 2:17 AM, Tahir Wood <twood at uwc.ac.za> wrote:
> Tahir: "I know of no credible commentator in SA who believes that
> teacher salaries"
>
> [WS:] I do not understand why you keep bringing this up - it is not
> germane to the argument that has been made here.
>
> T: On the contrary, this was the original point that I objected to most strongly and then your objection to my objection took it onto a different track. This is where the problem lies, in your zeal to expose my 'populism' and 'conservativism', you have lost the plot. I argued that in a properly leftist, that is, radical approach, you must take an all-sided view first of all. You have never said where you stood on this. Cox rejected it in upper case letters. And I accept that I will not agree with him on this. What say you?
>
> To reiterate - the argument here is that exclusive focus on teachers
> and their attributes as the sole "cause" of the failures in
> educational attainment is a diversion from real issues - a diversion
> in which both right wing union bashers and privatizers and left wing
> populists find common ground. I do not think that the teaching
> professionals are any worse than other professionals - surely they are
> bad teachers, but there are also bad doctors, bad engineers, bad
> managers, bad IT specialists, etc.
>
> T: You see this is where you don't want to admit that you don't know the severity of teacher under achievement in a country like South Africa. We have teachers teaching grade 12 maths who have not passed this subject at grade 12 themselves. Such 'teachers', I have been at pains to argue, nevertheless have a kind of sheltered employment in which they do not in effect have to do anything to rectify this situation. The situation in fact is given a spurious 'political' veneer. This is the empirical situation that you and yours just refuse to recognise, because it doesn't even have a place in your scheme of things. Hence my charge of blinkeredness and parochialism, which I do not withdraw.
>
> Tahir
>
>
>
>
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-- Wojtek http://wsokol.blogspot.com/