[lbo-talk] [Pen-l] Where are the anti-war liberals?

shag carpet bomb shag at cleandraws.com
Fri Feb 24 06:49:50 PST 2012


what did you think, Wojtek, of Graeber's really excellent arguments about how fucked up the use of "public" and public opinion polls are. I was reminded of this guy on the OWS Demands Working Group email list. LVX was his handle. He was constantly arguing that the Jobs for All Demand would never ever go anywhere because the "public" wouldn't accept and support it.

too bad reading is such a pain in the ass Carrol, you'd totally dig this book!

At 09:37 AM 2/22/2012, Wojtek S wrote:
>Robert: "I bet if the question asked: "Do you think the U.S. should
>continue to
>use drone strikes to target low-level fighters in Pakistan, who are
>not known to have engaged in any attacks against the United States,
>despite the fact that many current and former U.S. officials say that
>the policy has become counterproductive, and despite the fact that
>many Pakistanis and independent groups believe that the policy has
>produced significant civilian casualties," the answer would be very
>different."
>
>[WS:] Which is a textbook example of how NOT to ask survey questions.
>
>The broader point here is that the so-called opinion surveys are, for
>the most part utterly useless, a total waste of resources. They are
>like measuring shapes of clouds in the sky. A far better approach to
>gauging people's perceptions of issues are focus groups - which
>incidentally would probably yield results similar to ones that you
>hypothesize. But establishing this is not the point of most surveys.
>Most surveys are used the same way as drunks use lamp posts - for
>support rather than enlightenment.
>
>Wojtek
>
>On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 11:08 AM, Robert Naiman
><naiman at justforeignpolicy.org> wrote:
> > Most Americans know very little about the drone strikes. If more
> > detailed questions were asked and raised, I think a more nuanced
> > picture would emerge.
> >
> > For example, President Obama claimed in his "google hangout" that the
> > drone strikes only target named people on a list.
> >
> > But as the New York Times subsequently pointed out, citing U.S.
> > officials, that is simply not true.
> >
> > When the Washington Post asked,
> >
> > "13. Changing topics, thinking about the following decisions of the
> > Obama administration, please tell me whether you strongly approve,
> > somewhat approve, somewhat disapprove, or strongly disapprove...The
> > use of unmanned, "drone" aircraft against terrorist suspects overseas
> > "
> >
> > What exactly was it that people were saying yes to?
> >
> > I bet if the question asked: "Do you think the U.S. should continue to
> > use drone strikes to target low-level fighters in Pakistan, who are
> > not known to have engaged in any attacks against the United States,
> > despite the fact that many current and former U.S. officials say that
> > the policy has become counterproductive, and despite the fact that
> > many Pakistanis and independent groups believe that the policy has
> > produced significant civilian casualties," the answer would be very
> > different.
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 9:29 AM, ken hanly <northsunm at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/poll-finds-broad-support-for-obamas-counterterrorism-policies/2012/02/07/gIQAFrSEyQ_story.html
> >>
> >> But fully 77 percent of liberal Democrats endorse the use of drones,
> meaning
> >> that Obama is unlikely to suffer any political consequences as a result of
> >> his policy in this election year.
> >>
> >> The poll shows that 53 percent of self-identified liberal Democrats — and
> >> 67 percent of moderate or conservative Democrats — support keeping
> >> Guantanamo Bay open, even though it emerged as a symbol of the
> post-Sept. 11
> >> national security policies of President George W. Bush, which many
> liberals
> >> bitterly opposed.
> >>
> >> Liberal democratic hawks seem to be the predominant species.
> >>
> >> Cheers ken
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Blog: http://kenthink7.blogspot.com/index.html
> >> Blog: http://kencan7.blogspot.com/index.html
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> pen-l mailing list
> >> pen-l at lists.csuchico.edu
> >> https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Robert Naiman
> > Policy Director
> > Just Foreign Policy
> > www.justforeignpolicy.org
> > naiman at justforeignpolicy.org
> >
> > ___________________________________
> > http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>
>--
>Wojtek
>http://wsokol.blogspot.com/
>
>___________________________________
>http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk

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