my name is Nicholas and I share the sentiments of other neighbors of Occupy Oakland on the latest bullshit action, see below http://occupyoakland.org/2012/01/occupy-oakland-needs-bail-funds-donation-link-attached/
I participated in the OO demo day and in meetings before and after, and debated all this in person
I missed the offensive post about agent provocatuers.. but some sources is linked below. Soon enough, you too might know some of the increasing numbers of good intentioned young people who will be crushed between the doctrines and failed tactics of the left and the oppression and entrapment of the far right
I have been told my comments about riot porn, political violence, post-left anarchism are "boring as fuck", frankly, I too am bored by it. The point is, this is the script.
I know this list has a problem with good old fashioned counter-insurgency and counter-revolution, too much like conspiracy... because we all know, the powerful never conspire (except if its a major first world news corporation aka News International which was news gathering as open conspiracy and standover racket)
you might want to read Nick Davies, journo behind Wikileaks, Phone Hacking and other non-conspiratorial stories http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/nickdavies http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/jan/29/data-pool-3-sun-arrests-murdoch
Canada http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow
UK http://www.channel4.com/news/undercover-police-officer-was-agent-provocateur http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/16/lovers-undercover-officers-sue-police
USA http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/05/arts/television/better-this-world-on-pov-examines-use-of-informants.html http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixonland:_The_Rise_of_a_President_and_the_Fracturing_of_America
Italy http://vimeo.com/8672001 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/17/italy.g8 http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/19/italy.g8?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487
1. ae3January 29, 2012<http://occupyoakland.org/2012/01/occupy-oakland-needs-bail-funds-donation-link-attached/#comment-3413>
Occupy, you have taken one of the most progressive cities in the country
and turned us against you. You have spat in our faces, vandalizing and
defecating in my neighborhood at my son’s school after we welcomed you last
fall! After Occupy trashed the kids art and smashed the original
architects’s model of city hall??? You seriously want money from us??? Go
home and p___ in your own backyards!! You seriously want money from
us???!!!??? Start washing the grafitti
2. TlahtolliJanuary 29, 2012<http://occupyoakland.org/2012/01/occupy-oakland-needs-bail-funds-donation-link-attached/#comment-3391>
This post is confirmation that Occupy Oakland is being run by kids. You
want to privatize the profits and socialize the losses? Seriously?
How about you all grow up and suffer the consequences of your actions.
You done goofed up this time.
3. SimchaJanuary 29, 2012<http://occupyoakland.org/2012/01/occupy-oakland-needs-bail-funds-donation-link-attached/#comment-3389>
Why should any resident of Oakland or anyone else donate to release
people who couldn’t care less about us. Last night we the residents of
Oakland were taken hostage by selfish and ego driven zealots who no longer
represent us. As an Oakland resident and a member of the 99% I most
certainly will not donate to bail out people who care nothing about me or
the city of Oakland.
Most of them don’t live here. Why aren’t they working for change in
their own communities? Perhaps it’s because their own communities are even
less tolerant of their antics than we Oaklanders are. Please don’t take our
tolerance for support or acceptance. We don’t appreciate people coming to
our city acting as if they know better than we do about how to address our
own problems. We definitely don’t appreciate the destruction of our
community for your pet causes.
4. dbbates2008January 29, 2012<http://occupyoakland.org/2012/01/occupy-oakland-needs-bail-funds-donation-link-attached/#comment-3385>
I am all for peaceful demonstrations whether I agree with them or not.
But c’mon. There is a growing group within the Occupy movement advocating
violence. I think the recent destruction in Oakland shows that. I do not
think they should be bailed out and rewarded for violating the law. How
would people feel if gun rights advocates camped out and set up shooting
ranges in parks? And tore up public buildings? You would all demand they be
arrested!
From: Nicholas Roberts <nicholas at themediasociety.org> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] 400 Arrested during Occupy Protests - The Bay
>
> The logic of berlusconis mousetrap .... criminalizing the left ... how
> fucking boring
>
>
>
http://www.baycitizen.org/occupy-oakland-8/story/occupy-protesters-break-oaklands-city/?utm_source=Newsletters&utm_campaign=63ad083bd7-January_30_Daily_Newsletter&utm_medium=email
>
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Message: 8 Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2012 15:01:25 -0600 From: "Carrol Cox" <cbcox at ilstu.edu> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] 400 Arrested during Occupy Protests - The Bay
Citizen To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org> Message-ID: <3A03CD6B7C324260BFD8DE97E40DC40A at CarrolHPDesk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Who is debating what (concretely) with whom? This doesn't make much sense or have any connection with the subject line without some specification.
That said, the remark may be boring because it is a given that, eventually, with or without excuse, the state will attempt to criminalize any threatening opposition. And there is no one 'answer' to this. (Another situation where Theory is toothless.) Responses have to be worked out concretely in particular cases. Not much more can be said about it.
------
But another old issue: Probably the most offensive and stupidest post I (or anyone else for that matter) ever wrote was my response to one of Robert's posts on Oakland. Robert Wood quite correctly called me on it at the time. It is a serious poisoning of the wells of discourse to do as I did in that post and rant about police provocateurs etc.
My belated apologies to the list.
Carrol