[lbo-talk] Obama Speaks Out on Trayvon Martin Killing

Alan Rudy alan.rudy at gmail.com
Fri Mar 23 15:19:38 PDT 2012


On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 5:30 PM, Jordan Hayes <jmhayes at j-o-r-d-a-n.com> wrote:
> Wojtek:
>
>> Given what Alan said about overwhelming public support for
>> such laws, it seems like a way of placating public prejudices
>> and legitimating vigilante violence, no?

Now hold on just a minute, my point was that you've not actually done an investigation of the issues here and you made an ideological inference based on your lack of knowledge... and you use that to defend making another inference based on no greater consideration? Wow.

Two things are being conflated here, Stand Your Ground laws and concealed weapons laws (and I actually think you're further conflating vigilantism with the first two). Vigilantism clearly doesn't need these laws to be pursued and, as Jordan has rather clearly argued, Stand Your Ground laws have a clear purpose (though, as you are assuming rather than investigating, laws intended for one thing can be manipulated to facilitate something else or take advantage of prejudices held by jury members.) I simply can't say what the balance is between the abuse of Stand Your Ground laws relative to their proper application so that folks are obliged to flee felony crimes in process. I don't think you can either.

I don't like concealed weapons laws because I don't believe they increase anyone's safety based on reviewing research (some years back) that simply indicates that concealed weapons are only ever so rarely actually used in self-defense and are far more likely to be used offensively or accidentally. I also really really really do not want students and/or faculty, administrators or staff packing. I haven't done any recent work to study the issue's development over the last two decades but I'd be surprised if its changed.

Woj, you're being extremely reactive and not thinking out your positions (and overposting which kinda obliges others to do the same.)

A



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