[lbo-talk] Obama Speaks Out on Trayvon Martin Killing

Wojtek S wsoko52 at gmail.com
Tue Mar 27 05:19:26 PDT 2012


[WS:] I am generally very suspicious of any attempt of linking changes in crime rates to any single factor, because so many factors are involved and the number of cases is relatively small that making any causal connections borders on impossibility. For example, we can correlate changes in crime rates to changes in incarceration policy, or changes in gun ownership, or changes in concealed weapon permit laws, or changes in demographics, or changes in economic conditions etc. - depending what one wants to prove. For a taste, see the debate concerning the notorious hack John Lott http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lott.

I tend to believe that incarceration is generally a bad policy of fighting crime not because of its effects on crime rates but because its effects on individuals. This effect is socialization into the prison culture and prison social networks which makes it more difficult for inmates to live a crime free life after the release. This may or may not show in crime statistics, which as I said are affected by multiple factors, but it certainly makes a huge difference for the individuals involved. I generally do not believe in "standing one's ground" which is the mentality behind liberal use of incarceration - I find to be a part of macho posturing on the micro level and imperial arrogance on the macro level. I am disgusted by both.

Having said that, I think that dangerous criminals should be incarcerated. It is better than executing them.

Wojtek

On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 6:18 PM, Dennis Claxton <ddclaxton at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Michael Smith wrote:
>
>> Any one loon like George Zimmerman is a lot more dangerous than any number
>> of potheads or turnstile- jumpers or deadbeat dads or graffiti-painters.
>
>
>
> Much talk against prison policy is unconvincing because people don't know
> what they're talking about.  Or, to be kind, they don't have the latest
> info.  You're in New York right?  I ask because what you say here gives a
> false impression of what's going on there:
>
> http://www.aclu.org/infographic-safety-numbers-prison-population-statistics-new-york-vs-indiana
>
> August 15, 2011
>
> In the last decade, New York drastically reduced its prison population and
> at the same time experienced a huge drop in crime. Indiana, on the other
> hand, drastically increased its prison population — and consequently the
> burden to taxpayers — while seeing a much smaller drop in crime than the
> national average.
>
> graphic here:
>
> https://www.aclu.org/files/drugpolicy/safetyinnumbers.pdf
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-- Wojtek http://wsokol.blogspot.com/



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