[lbo-talk] Thomas Szasz, R.I.P.

andie_nachgeborenen andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com
Thu Sep 13 19:00:20 PDT 2012


Szaz probably made this point; haven't read him for years, decades actually, and all I recall is the bumper sticker version; but thinking about any disability, one sees that what phenomenon one explains is necessarily the interaction of what we bring to to the table, be it brain chemistry and the range of associated behavior along with the way we have structured our social lives and how that interacts with the behavioral traits that may be caused or explained by (more pointless nuance) brain chemistry or what have you. If people who behave roughly as schizophrenics do are treated as visionaries or prophets, and there is a place in society for people who imagine valleys of dried bones and the like, then schizophrenia, as we regard it, might be one way that some people can occupy an important social role rather than a debilitating illness. They won't be happy, but the prophetic role is rarely the provenance of happy people.

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On Sep 13, 2012, at 5:10 PM, shag carpet bomb <shag at cleandraws.com> wrote:


> well, the general medical opinion now is that they have all pretty much recanted the argument that mental disorders in general can be described as problems with 'brain chemistry'. that's not to say that the issue isn't physical, just that the brain chemistry argument has fallen into disrepute because investigations have revealed that bad research was peddled by drug companies with a stake in a brain chemistry explanation. I reviewed a bunch of those books and reported on them here back in july-sept of 2008. [1]
>
>
> BTW, i took a lot of shit some years ago for explaining that the heart disease that runs in my family is due to problems managing carbohydrate intake and that the heart problems had zero to do with cholestorol or fat intake more generally.
>
> Tada. Docs have finally caught up with what my mother knew in the mid-90s. I was at the doctor's the other day because the heart disease that runs in the family is now manifesting and voila: i was instructed to restrict carbs. Of course, I already do that, in addition to training over 7 hours a week, so he was another jackoff idiot that doesn't listen to patients on accounta they gotta get 'em in and out in 15 mins. at any rate, my point was that what was standard medical advice some years ago -- but undermined by a growing body of research that physicians hadn't incorporated yet -- is now considered old school, bad advice - although I still run into people with idiots for doctors.
>
> [1]
> there was also a fascinating book about, among other things, outcomes for schizophrenics on 50s and 60s style treatment and contemporary drugs. Argument is that the contmporary drugs turn schizophrenics into people completely incapable of dealing in society, even less socially and mentally competent than before. Can't remember the book, but I mentioned it here because the book irritated me in its underlying rhetoric: that we should want to do away with the bad medicines that have been causing such damage because they create people who are even more disabled, depressed, and incapable of functioning in society - pushing up the rate at which people end up declaring disability and dropping out of the workforce.
>
> At 10:09 AM 9/13/2012, Wojtek S wrote:
>> Did not he argue that schizophrenia was a "socially constructed"
>> illness that has no neurological basis. More recent research shows it
>> does (see below.)
>>
>> A larger point, however, is that Nietzsche's quote that "errors of
>> great men are venerable because they are more fruitful than the truths
>> of little men" fully applies to Szasz. He might have been wrong on
>> technical aspects of schizophrenia - mainly because science was not
>> there yet - but his broader argument that many so called mental
>> disorders are in fact labels denoting socially unacceptable behavior
>> still stands.
>>
>> Wojtek
>>
>> Schizophrenia is associated with subtle differences in brain
>> structures, found in 40 to 50% of cases, and in brain chemistry during
>> acute psychotic states.[2] Studies using neuropsychological tests and
>> brain imaging technologies such as fMRI and PET to examine functional
>> differences in brain activity have shown that differences seem to most
>> commonly occur in the frontal lobes, hippocampus and temporal
>> lobes.[52] Reductions in brain volume, smaller than those found in
>> Alzheimer's disease, have been reported in areas of the frontal cortex
>> and temporal lobes. It is uncertain whether these volumetric changes
>> are progressive or preexist prior to the onset of the disease.[53]
>> These differences have been linked to the neurocognitive deficits
>> often associated with schizophrenia.[54] Because neural circuits are
>> altered, it has alternatively been suggested that schizophrenia should
>> be thought of as a collection of neurodevelopmental disorders.[55]
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 11:17 PM, Miles Jackson
>> <milesvjackson at comcast.net> wrote:
>> > Wojtek S wrote:
>> >
>> >> [WS:] Szasz was my hero in my college years and an authority I quoted
>> >> in my discussions with my ex-girlfriend, herself a psychology major.
>> >> But unfortunately his views were later undermined by the progress made
>> >> by science. His views on schizophrenia - which I took for granted in
>> >> college - proved to be wrong.
>> >>
>> >
>> > What was he wrong about? (Serious question.)
>> >
>> > miles
>> >
>> > ___________________________________
>> > http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Wojtek
>>
>> "An anarchist is a neoliberal without money."
>> ___________________________________
>> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
> --
> http://cleandraws.com
> Wear Clean Draws
> ('coz there's 5 million ways to kill a CEO)
>
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