[lbo-talk] fuck that nonsense

123hop at comcast.net 123hop at comcast.net
Tue Apr 16 12:10:08 PDT 2013


The fall of communism was a revolution from above. The appartchiks and black marketers wanted what their capitalist confreres openly enjoyed.

The people wanted more democracy, but they didn't have much of a clue about real existing capitalism.

There is also the reality that the eastern block and the former USSR were class societies, and that there were a significant number of educated/professional people who were outraged that they would have to sit at the same table with peasants and factory workers.

They expected that the return of capitalism would restore their class status and privileges. I spoke to a number of Romanians who told me that if they were allowed to emigrate to the US, they would be given a house, a car, and a job upon arrival.

Joanna

----- Original Message ----- So, are you guys saying that the reason for the fall of communism was a housing shorting? If the parties had just invested more in real estate, things would have been different?

Something I used to hear when this was widely discussed twenty years ago was that people in the ex-bloc countries came, as most people do, to take what they had for granted,NAND that it was a big shock to them when they discussed that life under capitalism involved constant insecurity, risk of loss of job, house, status, etc. especially when a lot of them did lose their jobs.

Political freedom is important, worth fighting more. But most people don't use it and would not miss it. Many here who bleated most loudly about Communist oppression actively promoted oppression, for example, to outlaw more than a very narrow range of politics and political thought. They would have made good apparatchiki.

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 15, 2013, at 5:33 PM, 123hop at comcast.net wrote:


>
> I would like to add a few things, though.
>
> First, people lived without fear. I did not realize that until I came to
> the US, where most people live in a constant fear of crime, losing their
> job, losing their status etc. This was brand new to me.
>
> Second, housing shortage was a big problem and many young people had to
> live with their parents. This was particularly bad in big cities due to a
> large scale country to city migration. And it was a main generator of
> anti-Communist sentiments. I once talked to someone from Poland with
> strong anti-Communist views and when I asked her for reasons - with the
> caveat not to bullshit me about "oppression" because I used to live there
> too and know better - her reply was "housing". She and her hubby - both
> college educated intelligentsia - lived in a single room in Warsaw and
> thought they deserved better and hated it.
>
> Three - most ex-Soviet bloc countries were very provincial and ethnocentric
> despite high levels of literacy. I would not call them exactly "racist"
> but their view of the world was pretty much Euro-centered, with the white
> man on the top. The reason many of them hated Communism was that they saw
> their country on a par with Africa rather than Germany. The level of
> sexism was also very high, and still is.
>
> Wojtek
>
> -- ------------
>
> Perhaps it was different in Poland, but in Romania I remember a lot of fear of the secret police. Otherwise, I agree with everything you said.
>
> Joanna
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk

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