On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Wojtek S <wsoko52 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Carrol: " I am
> interested in what ideology is, how it is formed, etc."
>
> [WS:] Weberian sociology has some interesting insights into this. A simple
> way of putting it is that culture is a "garbage can" to which different
> people or groups pitch ideas, solution of existing or non-existing
> problems, beliefs, theories, narratives, etc. This "garbage can" is a
> repository of various ideas that can be recycled and used by different
> people for different purposes and occasions. The most frequent use of
> those ideas is legitimation, which means providing a reason why a certain
> group of people deserves what it wants and why others should give it to
> them. There is a certain concordance between the content of specific ideas
> and specific interests, called 'elective affinity.'
>
> If a group claiming a particular idea to legitimate its demands becomes
> economically powerful two things usually happen. First that group has
> economic resources to promote and disseminate the idea to which they have
> 'elective affinity.' Second, the economic success of that group has a
> role modeling effect for the rest - others want to emulate it, and by that
> virtue they accept the idea to which the dominant group has elective
> affinity. Oftentimes, the acceptance of the idea is the only thing that
> other people can do to emulate the top stratum. After a while, this idea
> becomes entrenched in tradition and defended by the grunts,even though it
> lost its legitimation usefulness to the elite.
>
> Witness for example, sport hunting. It used to be an activity
> demonstrating the prowess of the military aristocracy, but then it
> trickled down to the masses and became part of a popular tradition, even
> though it is no longer used to legitimate the status of the elite. Ditto
> for religion. Calvinism was a religion of the emergent bourgeoisie because
> it legitimated their wealth as a sign from god. That religion was trickled
> down to the masses and became a part of popular tradition, even though it
> no longer legitimates the status of the elite.
>
> Today, economic doctrines play a similar role. In the 18th century liberal
> theories legitimated the claims of bourgeoisie against monarchy. Today,
> these theories have been recycled from the "garbage can" to legitimate the
> claims of the new elites against the state. Suddenly you see academics,
> politicians and jurnos parroting these 18th century ideas ad nauseam. You
> also see corporate grunts and wannabe entrepreneurs adopting these ideas to
> look more like elites with which they identify. Monkey see, monkey do.
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 11, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
> > I wasn't interested in "the question" re IRS or Democrats etc. I am
> > interested in what ideology is, how it is formed, etc.
> >
> > Carrol
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:
> > lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> > > On Behalf Of Arthur Maisel
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:23 AM
> > > To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> > > Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Framing is everything
> > >
> > > The question was whether the IRS actually avoided investigating
> Democrat
> > > groups because they were Democrat groups. That seems about as clear a
> > > question of reality as whether my wife made a U-turn (she did) and
> > whether
> > > the cop declined to give her a ticket because he had someone else in
> hand
> > > (he did). Neither is a question of ideology or of "common sense" (which
> > > it's painting with a pretty broad brush to conflate with ideology, in
> my
> > > opinion).
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Carrol Cox <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > There was ideology 80K years ago?
> > > > >
> > > > > Really?
> > > >
> > > > Yes really. It is obvious enough that there is no point in debating
> it.
> > > >
> > > > Carrol
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ___________________________________
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> > > >
> > > ___________________________________
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> >
> >
> > ___________________________________
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Wojtek
>
> "An anarchist is a neoliberal without money."
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