[lbo-talk] The US and Iran

joel schalit jschalit at gmail.com
Tue Jun 18 07:37:09 PDT 2013


There've been Iranian troops i Syria for a while now, Just nothing of this level, from what I understand. I'd imagine their presence is being looked at two ways - first, to bolster Assad; Second, to serve as strategic presence close to Israel's border, because, off and on, Israeli forces have been stationed near other Iranian borders, including its frontier with Turkey.

Israel could strike them for that reason alone, which I imagine is something not lost on Tehran. In a way, it is to Iran's benefit to raise the temperature in this manner, because it shifts Israeli focus towards Syria. Certainly there will be military cooperation with Hizbullah, and I would imagine, reasons will be found to attack them on such grounds.

On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 4:19 PM, Marv Gandall <marvgand2 at gmail.com> wrote:


> How would you foresee an Israel-Iran confrontation in Syria? I can't
> conceive of the Israelis, for example, using air power to support the
> rebellion, not least because of its uncertain political direction - the
> same hesitation bedevilling the Americans.
>
> On 2013-06-18, at 10:00 AM, joel schalit wrote:
>
> > My inclination is to believe that the Iranian deployment, in Syria, does
> > not diminish the possibility of an Iranian-Israeli fight. The Americans
> > might not, in my view, be able to restrain such an event from taking
> place,
> > even if it is restricted to Syrian territory. I say this, in full
> agreement
> > that Iran's new President is a moderating force.
> >
> > Joel
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Marv Gandall <marvgand2 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> The Israelis, with grudging US support, have been talking about bombing
> >> Iran for a decade now in a vain bid to stop the development of its
> nuclear
> >> program. The election of the Western-educated Hassan Rohani makes that
> >> prospect all the more unlikely. Rohani was instrumental in negotiating
> the
> >> suspension of Iran's nuclear enrichment program under the reformist
> >> president Mohammed Khatami and has indicated his eagerness for renewed
> >> talks. More to the point, the US and its allies will not want to do
> >> anything to derail the revived movement of middle and working class
> >> Iranians against the current regime. The urban masses gave Rohani the
> >> presidency and for cultural and economic reasons are seeking improved
> >> relations with the West.
> >>
> >> Israel is always an unpredictable and troublesome wild card for the US,
> >> but it seems clear that the US defence and foreign policy establishment
> has
> >> reconciled itself to "containing" rather than preventing a nuclear-armed
> >> Iran. Hillary Clinton said as much last year. The reported dispatch of
> 4000
> >> Iranian troops to Syria plus Rohani's election will likely place more
> >> pressure on the Obama administration to negotiate a settlement of the
> >> conflict and stabilize the situation in the Middle East. Whether it can
> do
> >> so in light of the multiple interrelated class, religious, and ethnic
> >> conflicts in the region is another matter.
> >>
> >> The underlying historical factors encouraging the Americans to pursue a
> >> policy of peaceful coexistence with Islamist regimes and movements,
> along
> >> the same lines as they once did with the Communist regimes in USSR and
> >> China, are shrewdly summarized below:
> >>
> >>
> >> The west’s dominance of the Middle East is ending
> >> By Gideon Rachman
> >> Financial Times
> >> June 17 2013
> >>
> >> Those calling for deeper US involvement in the Syrian conflict are
> living
> >> in the past
> >>
> >> Should the west arm the Syrian rebels? That is the issue of the day in
> >> Washington, London and at the Group of Eight summit. But behind this
> debate
> >> lies a bigger question. Can western powers continue to shape the future
> of
> >> the Middle East as they have for the past century?
> >>
> >> The current, increasingly fragile borders of the Middle East are, to a
> >> large extent, the product of some lines on the map drawn by Britain and
> >> France in the Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916. The era when Britain and
> >> France were the dominant outside powers ended definitively with the Suez
> >> crisis of 1956 – when the US pulled the plug on the two nations’
> >> intervention in Egypt. During the cold war, the US and the USSR were the
> >> big players. After the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, America
> stood
> >> alone as the great power in the Middle East: organising the coalition to
> >> defeat Saddam Hussein in 1991, protecting the flow of oil from the Gulf,
> >> containing Iran and attempting to broker a peace settlement between
> Israel
> >> and the Arab states.
> >>
> >> Those who are urging the US to get more deeply involved in the Syrian
> >> conflict now are living in the past. They assume that America can and
> >> should continue to dominate the politics of the Middle East. But four
> >> fundamental changes make it no longer realistic, or even desirable, for
> the
> >> US to dominate the region in the old way.
> >> These changes are the failures of the Afghan and Iraq wars; the Great
> >> Recession, the Arab spring and the prospect of US energy independence.
> >>
> >> Over the past decade, the US has learnt that while its military might
> can
> >> topple regimes in the greater Middle East very quickly, America and its
> >> allies are very bad at nation-building. A decade of involvement has left
> >> both Afghanistan and Iraq deeply unstable and wracked by conflict.
> Neither
> >> country is securely in the “western camp”.
> >> The result is that even the advocates of western intervention in Syria,
> >> such as Senator John McCain, proclaim that they are opposed to “boots on
> >> the ground”. Instead, they are pushing to supply weapons to the Syrian
> >> rebels – arguing that this is necessary to secure a more desirable
> >> political outcome.
> >>
> >> President Barack Obama has given some ground to the “arm the rebels”
> camp.
> >> But his reluctance and scepticism are evident – and amply justified. If
> a
> >> full-scale western occupation of both Iraq and Afghanistan was unable to
> >> secure a decent outcome, why does anybody believe that supplying a few
> >> light weapons to the Syrian rebels will be more effective?
> >>
> >> The Great Recession also means that the west’s capacity to “bear any
> >> burden” can no longer be taken for granted. European military spending
> is
> >> falling fast – and cuts in the Pentagon budget have begun. With the
> direct
> >> and indirect cost of the Iraq war estimated at $3tn and the US
> government
> >> borrowing 40 cents of every dollar that it spends, it is hardly
> surprising
> >> that Mr Obama is wary of taking on new commitments in the Middle East.
> >>
> >> The third new factor is the Arab spring. President Hosni Mubarak of
> Egypt
> >> was a long-time ally and client of the US. Nonetheless, Washington
> decided
> >> to let him fall in early 2011 – much to the disgust and alarm of other
> >> long-term American allies in the region, notably Saudi Arabia and
> Israel.
> >> But the Obama administration was right to drop Mr Mubarak. He could not
> >> have been propped up without risking a Syria-style bloodbath.
> >>
> >> More fundamentally, the US has recognised that, ultimately, the people
> of
> >> the Middle East are going to have to shape their own destinies. Many of
> the
> >> forces at work in the region – such as Islamism and Sunni-Shia
> sectarianism
> >> – are alarming to the west but they cannot be forever channelled or
> >> suppressed.
> >>
> >> Finally, the ability of the US to take a more hands-off attitude is
> >> greatly enhanced by the shale revolution in the US, which lessens
> American
> >> dependence on Middle Eastern oil.
> >>
> >> Accepting that western domination of the Middle East is coming to an
> end,
> >> however, should not be confused with saying that western nations will
> not
> >> defend their interests.
> >>
> >> The US has large military bases in the Gulf and, together with its
> allies,
> >> will still try to prevent the Middle East becoming dominated by a
> hostile
> >> power. Despite its role in Syria, Russia is not a plausible regional
> >> hegemon. But Iran worries the US; an attack on its nuclear programme
> >> remains an option, despite the encouraging result of this weekend’s
> >> presidential elections. Jihadist forces, linked to al-Qaeda, will also
> >> encounter western resistance – one reason why the Syrian opposition
> >> continues to be treated very warily. And the US and its European allies
> >> will remain deeply involved in regional diplomacy over Syria.
> >>
> >> Western humanitarian instincts will play a role too – as they did in the
> >> decision to support the Libyan rebellion. But, as Syria is
> demonstrating,
> >> there is a limit to what the west will take on. Even former Australian
> >> foreign minister Gareth Evans, the intellectual godfather of the
> doctrine
> >> of the “responsibility to protect” civilians, is warning against
> military
> >> intervention in Syria.
> >>
> >> Despite the US decision to begin to supply military assistance to the
> >> rebels, Mr Obama is obviously still wary of deep involvement in the
> Syrian
> >> conflict. More than some of his advisers and allies, he seems to
> appreciate
> >> the limited ability of outside powers to control the new order that it
> is
> >> emerging in the region. The era of direct colonialism in the Middle East
> >> ended decades ago. The era of informal empire is now also coming to a
> close.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___________________________________
> >> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > joel schalit
> > skype: jschalit
> > mobile: +49 160 98190521
> > email: jschalit at gmail.com
> > web: www.joelschalit.com
> > work: www.souciant.com
> > ___________________________________
> > http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>

-- joel schalit skype: jschalit mobile: +49 160 98190521 email: jschalit at gmail.com web: www.joelschalit.com work: www.souciant.com



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