[lbo-talk] Revolutionary Movements & Parties

[Carrol Cox]

It's not just Marxists who do not have a crystal ball -- it's everyone. And
that means whatever one calls oneself now (or is called by others) there is
no certainty of continuing in that position. And the contrast of
revolutionary/reformist is empty. What counts in the present  is _present_
attitude towards _present_ tactics. That's the reason I put so much emphasis
on rejecting the DP  -- it's a lousy vehicle of reform; it's where
meaningful  reform movements go to die. That's not quite correct: it is a
vigorous _enemy_ of any meaningful reform.

Carrol


> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of Marv Gandall
> Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2013 4:10 PM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Revolutionary Movements & Parties
> 
> 
> On 2013-05-29, at 9:52 AM, c b wrote:
> 
> > "Revolutionary" parties _can_, of course, play the same role. I have
> > suggested that the Party we need will be much like the SPD of Kautsky,
> > Luxemburg, Bernstein, et al. That was a revolutionary party, but it
> > also was a place for the likes of Bernstein. Probably, as I've
> > suggested before (following an argument of Andre Gorz) that a mass
> > working-class movement has to achieve most of its goals within about a
> > 5-year framework, and then (for reasons Charles Post has outlined)
> > tends to subside.
> >
> > Carrol
> >
> > ^^^^
> > CB: Ok , however, the German SPD did not achieve revolutionary goals,
> > so why is it an example of a "revolutionary" party ?
> 
> Yes, and I'd take your point a step further. The SPD not only failed to
make a
> revolution, it never sought one, though there was an active revolutionary
> Marxist minority within its ranks. It was instead a massive and very
effective
> reform party, the leading party of the Second International up to the eve
of
> World War I. Like the British Labour Party and the other social democratic
> parties, it originally called for the nationalization of the commanding
heights
> of the capitalist economy by peaceful, gradual, parliamentary means but,
> when the utopian nature of this project became evident, it subsequently
> settled for a share in the administration of the state in exchange for
reforms
> which did not threaten the existing system of power and property
relations.
> Marx criticized the SPD as far back as the 1870's for its Lasallean
reformism,
> an impulse which took wings following Bismarck's subsequent decision to
> legalize the SPD, which became the template for other ruling classes
worri!
>  ed about the growth and direction of the new workers' movement.
> 
> Of course, even a mass reformist party like the old SPD, only nominally
> committed to socialism, would indicate a much higher level of working
class
> consciousness and struggle than that which exists at present.
> 
> 
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