[lbo-talk] A short soliloquy on freedom and fishing

shag carpet bomb shag at cleandraws.com
Sat Nov 9 11:10:46 PST 2013


out of curiosity, did it ever explain anything?

I can't, at the moment, remember what it was supposed to designate other than epithet as in, "you're just a petty bourg individual," which generally means objectively anti-Marxist (or something like that).

At 03:11 PM 11/8/2013, Carrol Cox wrote:
>Marv G: "Andie may be playfully self-deprecating, and the phrase may still
>have some polemical utility as an epithet, but does the characterisation of
>today's intellectuals as "petty bourgeois" retain any explanatory power? "
>
>Probably not -- but have you encountered many libertarians? Some years ago
>(for posture improvement) I begin once a week to take training in the
>Alexander method. My trainer also gives guitar lessons (he has an MA in
>musicology from the U of Michigan.) He's right out of the textbook. He sees
>the world as made up of totally independent individuals , and while he is a
>nice guy, he also it seems to me has a mean streak somewhere at the center
>of his person, & it comes precisely from "petty bourgeiois" status in the
>'pure' sense: an independent petty producer. I never 'debate' him directly.
>I did once get him to note that the 'customers' that make it pay for him to
>drive over from Urbana once a week _all_ depend on state pensions. I think
>'pure' case such as this are useful in exploring the basis of "petty-b"
>ideology in less 'pure' categories.
>
>But I would agree never to use the phrase except in special contexts such as
>the present. It is apt to be toxic.
>
>Carrol
>
>
>
>
>Most are university graduates who come from white and blue collar families.
>They're no longer predominantly self-employed or living on family allowances
>or landed and business profits as was common in the 19th century. For the
>most part, they're salaried professional and technical employees, the newest
>and fastest growing layer of the working class.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
>On Behalf Of Marv Gandall
>Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 10:18 AM
>To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
>Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] A short soliloquy on freedom and fishing
>
>
>On 2013-11-08, at 9:52 AM, andie_nachgeborenen
><andie_nachgeborenen at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Great story. I have to confess I don't like fishing either, but I never
>pretended to be anything but a petit bourgeois intellectual. Even if I spend
>the rest of my working life stacking boxes at Target, that's what I'd be.
>
>Andie may be playfully self-deprecating, and the phrase may still have some
>polemical utility as an epithet, but does the characterisation of today's
>intellectuals as "petty bourgeois" retain any explanatory power?
>
>Most are university graduates who come from white and blue collar families.
>They're no longer predominantly self-employed or living on family allowances
>or landed and business profits as was common in the 19th century. For the
>most part, they're salaried professional and technical employees, the newest
>and fastest growing layer of the working class.
>
>Their class location may have shifted, but some would still argue that the
>political consciousness of intellectuals (broadly understood) is petty
>bourgeois. Like farmers, artisans, and other small property holders before
>them, they're generally accepting of capitalism with a bias towards
>redistributive reforms and against the rule of Big Capital and the wealthy.
>Andie goes so far as to suggest that this would still be the case even were
>he to succumb to the temptation to leave lawyering in favour of stacking
>boxes at Target.
>
>But isn't this true of of the working class as a whole? It's political
>consciousness can no longer be described as "proletarian", when large
>numbers of workers saw themselves as having distinct interests and socialist
>objectives fundamentally opposed to the ruling class. This anti-capitalist
>constituency is now pretty much confined to a small minority of leftish
>academics and other dissenting intellectuals and students, which brings us
>back to the question of how to describe the class location and political
>character of the particular social layer to which most of us belong.
>
>
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>
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