A CAPITAL SHIP FOR AN OCEAN TRIP.
Gene
On Oct 12, 2013, at 6:23 PM, lbo-talk-request at lbo-talk.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. sailing poem (turbulo at aol.com)
> 2. Re: Doug, on Salon (Bill Bartlett)
> 3. Re: sailing poem (JOANNA A.)
> 4. Re: Doug, on Salon (JOANNA A.)
> 5. Re: sailing poem (Michael Smith)
> 6. Re: sailing poem (Sean Andrews)
> 7. Re: Doug, on Salon (Michael Smith)
> 8. Re: sailing poem (Joseph Catron)
> 9. Re: sailing poem (Carrol Cox)
> 10. Re: Doug, on Salon (Bill Bartlett)
> 11. Re: sailing poem (Carrol Cox)
> 12. Re: Doug, on Salon (Carrol Cox)
> 13. Labor Centers (Carrol Cox)
> 14. Re: Doug, on Salon (Michael Smith)
> 15. Re: Doug, on Salon (Michael Smith)
> 16. Re: sailing poem (Carl G. Estabrook)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 19:35:41 -0400 (EDT)
> From: turbulo at aol.com
> Subject: [lbo-talk] sailing poem
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID: <8D095BAE5AD326F-13FC-22890 at webmail-m140.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> Too ashamed to say why, but does anyone happen to think of a good/short poem or
> part of a poem that talks about sailing or sailing ships or the lure of the sea?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joanna
>
> *****************
> Probably the most famous one is John Masefield's "Sea Fever": "I must go down to the sea again,...", etc.
>
> Ji,m
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2013 10:38:22 +1100
> From: Bill Bartlett <william7 at aapt.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Doug, on Salon
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID: <8CCD5EC9-39CB-40BF-8FF9-59BC7D460962 at aapt.net.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> The core of Marxist theory as I understood it was that all profit ultimately derived from labour. So while I greatly enjoyed anti-Star Trek and think he makes many interesting, (no I think I should say "fascinating" ;-) points about the direction of current capitalist society, I wonder whether it might not be taking it a bit too far to suggest that what he calls "rentier" capitalism could be a stable economic system?
>
> This "rentier" trend is a genuine thing of course. For instance the imperative to privatise utilities. An interesting example here in Australia is the recently privatised and state owned electricity utilities. (Not all of them have yet been privatised.)
>
> The electricity sale price of each utility is heavily regulated by an "independent price regulator". The regulators are set up by the same state governments that owns the electricity utilities, or recently sold them. But a big problem is that the rules allow the utility to price its product high enough to recoup a fair return on its investment. This is fairly standard across the mainly privatised energy monopolies in this country, but it is not market capitalism, it is 100% monopoly capitalism. The energy monopolies have all tended to "gold-plate" their system, investing in unnecessary plant and equipment, knowing that this will justify them raising prices to match. Electricity prices have jumped enormously in the last few years as a result.
>
> This is classic "rentier" capitalism in the anti-Star Trek view. But really, it is just a form of monopoly capitalism. And monopoly capitalism has been a trend since capitalism was a baby.
>
> Though it may be accelerating somewhat as it becomes more and more difficult for capitalists to find profitable investments? Because that would seem to me to be the basic flaw with the anti-Star Trek vision of "rentier" capitalism. If all profit is ultimately derived from labour, then "rentier" or profits must ultimately be parasitical on capitalist enterprises that exploit labour power. So it impossible to have a stable economic system based almost entirely on "rentier" profits.
>
> Bill Bartlett
> Bracknell Tas
>
> On 13/10/2013, at 1:36 AM, "Carrol Cox" <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>> The society described in anti-startrek is NOT a capitalist society: the core
>> of capitalism (according to Marx) is NOT profit but labor as a commodity.
>> That is what the late Jim Blaut could not grasp, and it makes nonsense of
>> his theories.
>>
>> Carrol
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________
>> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 23:41:52 +0000 (UTC)
> From: "JOANNA A." <123hop at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] sailing poem
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID:
> <1224731691.6359768.1381621312872.JavaMail.root at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Yes. That's very good. But I need one with a little less gray and no sharp knives.
>
> Joanna
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> Too ashamed to say why, but does anyone happen to think of a good/short poem or
> part of a poem that talks about sailing or sailing ships or the lure of the sea?
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joanna
>
> *****************
> Probably the most famous one is John Masefield's "Sea Fever": "I must go down to the sea again,...", etc.
>
> Ji,m
>
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 23:43:10 +0000 (UTC)
> From: "JOANNA A." <123hop at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Doug, on Salon
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID: <38986132.6360036.1381621390460.JavaMail.root at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Speaking of privatization, they just got the Royal Mail
>
> http://rt.com/op-edge/uk-royal-mail-privatization-destruction-073/
>
> Joanna
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 20:16:08 -0400
> From: Michael Smith <mjs at smithbowen.net>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] sailing poem
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID: <20131012201608.5ee9336d at smithbowen.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
> Ole Idaho Ezra Pound, the Village Explainer
> according to Gertrude Stein. Not my favorite
> poet (though *much* better than that insufferable
> bore Eliot). But he wrote some good stuff.
>
> Beginning of Canto I :
>
> And then went down to the ship,
> Set keel to breakers, forth on the godly sea, and
> We set up mast and sail on that swart ship,
> Bore sheep aboard her, and our bodies also
> Heavy with weeping, so winds from sternward
> Bore us out onward with bellying canvas...
>
> He had read his Homer, and I do believe he might
> have been on a boat at some point. 'Godly sea'
> and 'bellying canvas' are both first-rate, though
> canvas is of course an anachronism.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 19:21:05 -0500
> From: Sean Andrews <cultstud76 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] sailing poem
> To: "lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org" <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAANq81BY=H8rLJQHf5EtieWUpYyaguN+ykVJG0NRtAx8H7cT3A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Here is something a little more upbeat. http://youtu.be/VMkIuKXwmlU
>
> On Oct 12, 2013, at 6:41 PM, "JOANNA A." <123hop at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Yes. That's very good. But I need one with a little less gray and no sharp
> knives.
>
> Joanna
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> Too ashamed to say why, but does anyone happen to think of a good/short
> poem or
> part of a poem that talks about sailing or sailing ships or the lure of the
> sea?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joanna
>
> *****************
> Probably the most famous one is John Masefield's "Sea Fever": "I must go
> down to the sea again,...", etc.
>
> Ji,m
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 20:22:29 -0400
> From: Michael Smith <mjs at smithbowen.net>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Doug, on Salon
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID: <20131012202229.6e21d40e at smithbowen.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 10:38:22 +1100
> Bill Bartlett <william7 at aapt.net.au> wrote:
>
>> I wonder whether it might not be taking it a bit too far to
>> suggest that what he calls "rentier" capitalism could be a stable
>> economic system?
>
> Has there ever been such a thing as a 'stable economic system'?
>
> If such a thing were possible, would it be a Good Thing?
>
> One of the insights Marx got from Hegel, I'd say, is
> that there's no such thing as stability. Each system
> systematically destabilizes itself.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2013 03:30:28 +0300
> From: Joseph Catron <jncatron at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] sailing poem
> To: LBO <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Message-ID:
> <CAKdnb5Y2CJr2JEGRT2b6EQzB7U+q9e2UfpVZJyfE4dbFiOdOPA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Since you didn't tell us why, I'll just go right ahead and suggest "The
> Good Ship Venus."
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPGLNYAgL-8
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 2:35 AM, <turbulo at aol.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Too ashamed to say why, but does anyone happen to think of a good/short
>> poem or
>> part of a poem that talks about sailing or sailing ships or the lure of
>> the sea?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joanna
>>
>> *****************
>> Probably the most famous one is John Masefield's "Sea Fever": "I must go
>> down to the sea again,...", etc.
>>
>> Ji,m
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________
>> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>>
>
>
>
> --
> "Hige sceal ?e heardra, heorte ?e cenre, mod sceal ?e mare, ?e ure m?gen
> lytla?."
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 19:33:41 -0500
> From: "Carrol Cox" <cbcox at ilstu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] sailing poem
> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Message-ID: <000101cec7ab$dde54bd0$99afe370$@ilstu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Frank Copley's comment on Pound's Canto I was that Pound Out-Homered Homer.
>
> Eliot's Gerontion is pretty good. And thanks to Pound, TWL is pretty
> impressive. Read it as a War Poem. The Peace that Passeth Understanding was
> what Keynes said about the Treaty of Versailles. "Rat's Alley" was a WW
> slang for the trenches.
> Carrol
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of Michael Smith
> Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 7:16 PM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] sailing poem
>
>
> Ole Idaho Ezra Pound, the Village Explainer according to Gertrude Stein. Not
> my favorite poet (though *much* better than that insufferable bore Eliot).
> But he wrote some good stuff.
>
> Beginning of Canto I :
>
> And then went down to the ship,
> Set keel to breakers, forth on the godly sea, and We set up mast and sail on
> that swart ship, Bore sheep aboard her, and our bodies also Heavy with
> weeping, so winds from sternward Bore us out onward with bellying canvas...
>
> He had read his Homer, and I do believe he might have been on a boat at some
> point. 'Godly sea'
> and 'bellying canvas' are both first-rate, though canvas is of course an
> anachronism.
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:33:53 +1100
> From: Bill Bartlett <william7 at aapt.net.au>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Doug, on Salon
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID: <DC2A3F34-3898-4DCF-8542-18FC77DB3C0E at aapt.net.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
> On 13/10/2013, at 11:22 AM, Michael Smith <mjs at smithbowen.net> wrote:
>
>>> I wonder whether it might not be taking it a bit too far to
>>> suggest that what he calls "rentier" capitalism could be a stable
>>> economic system?
>>
>> Has there ever been such a thing as a 'stable economic system'?
>
> I stand corrected. "Viable" economic system then.
>
> You know us old codgers tend to waffle on, it doesn't do to correct us unnecessarily you know, it just prompts us to start another meandering rant. Which reminds me, I never got around to making the point that I was coming to in that post, that this whole copyright trend is merely a modern expression of monopoly capitalism.
>
> I noticed my error soon after posting it, but thought "oh well, I guess that is clearly implied." But your quibble over the slightly inappropriate use of the word "stable", suggests to me that there might be a need to be more explicit.
>
> Bill Bartlett
> Bracknell Tas
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 19:40:00 -0500
> From: "Carrol Cox" <cbcox at ilstu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] sailing poem
> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Message-ID: <000501cec7ac$c0264940$4072dbc0$@ilstu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> The Seafarer
> By Ezra Pound
> May I for my own self song's truth reckon,
> Journey's jargon, how I in harsh days
> Hardship endured oft.
> Bitter breast-cares have I abided,
> Known on my keel many a care's hold,
> And dire sea-surge, and there I oft spent
> Narrow nightwatch nigh the ship's head
> While she tossed close to cliffs. Coldly afflicted,
> My feet were by frost benumbed.
> Chill its chains are; chafing sighs
> Hew my heart round and hunger begot
> Mere-weary mood. Lest man know not
> That he on dry land loveliest liveth,
> List how I, care-wretched, on ice-cold sea,
> Weathered the winter, wretched outcast
> Deprived of my kinsmen;
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 19:45:29 -0500
> From: "Carrol Cox" <cbcox at ilstu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Doug, on Salon
> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Message-ID: <000601cec7ad$843664f0$8ca32ed0$@ilstu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Japanese Feudalism was pretty stable. In fact most peasant societies are
> stable. When they fail it is almost always from outside disruption. Even
> when a ruling class becomes "decadent" (a tricky concept) it takes outside
> intervention to bring the "system" down (and replace it with a more or less
> identical 'system.'). I put _system_ in s care quotes because I think it
> arguable that only capitalism is actually a "system" (held together by
> internal relations) -- and hence subject to Hegelian principle.
>
> Carrol
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org]
> On Behalf Of Michael Smith
> Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2013 7:22 PM
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Doug, on Salon
>
> On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 10:38:22 +1100
> Bill Bartlett <william7 at aapt.net.au> wrote:
>
>> I wonder whether it might not be taking it a bit too far to suggest
>> that what he calls "rentier" capitalism could be a stable economic
>> system?
>
> Has there ever been such a thing as a 'stable economic system'?
>
> If such a thing were possible, would it be a Good Thing?
>
> One of the insights Marx got from Hegel, I'd say, is that there's no such
> thing as stability. Each system systematically destabilizes itself.
>
>
> ___________________________________
> http://mailman.lbo-talk.org/mailman/listinfo/lbo-talk
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 19:52:26 -0500
> From: "Carrol Cox" <cbcox at ilstu.edu>
> Subject: [lbo-talk] Labor Centers
> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Message-ID: <000701cec7ae$7ccc16f0$766444d0$@ilstu.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> The following is from the Chamber of Commerce
> <http://www.workforcefreedom.com/blog/house-hearing-scrutinizes-union-front-
> groups>
>
> I grabbed on to it because of some arguments Stanley Aronowitz advanced at a
> Rethinking Marxism panel: The NLRB was a disaster for labor, since for a
> union to gain its "advantages" the union puts itself under the law. These
> labor centers (discussed below) don't claim NLRB protection so they don't
> have to obey NLRB law. The tone of the final paragraphs below suggest that
> the intellectuals at the Chamber of Commerce are very aware of this, and are
> seriously frightened by "labor" groups that do not operate under the wing of
> the NLRB.
>
> Carrol
>
> The House Subcommittee on Health, Employment, Labor, and Pensions held a
> hearing on September 19 entitled, "The Future of Union Organizing" to
> examine current trends in union activity, including the increased role of
> union front groups known as "worker centers." As this blog noted nearly a
> year ago, the use of worker centers as front groups for unions has been a
> key strategy among certain labor organizations to circumvent federal laws
> that would otherwise restrict their behavior, so it is a good sign that
> Congress has started to take more notice.
>
> The hearing came just a week after the quadrennial convention of the
> American Federation of Labor and Congress of Industrial Organizations
> (AFL-CIO), at which the labor federation adopted resolutions that
> specifically called for an increase in the use of worker centers to bolster
> Labor's agenda and boost its flagging membership. Between that and AFL-CIO
> President Richard Trumka's earlier announcement that using worker centers
> would become an explicit part of Labor's strategy, observers of labor policy
> have begun to analyze the legal and policy implications of this model.
>
> This new strategy has already been playing out, including last November's
> "Black Friday" protests, which the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW)
> orchestrated through its front group OUR Walmart, and several days of action
> against fast food restaurants led by front groups associated with the SEIU.
> These activities have garnered considerable media attention, which has also
> prompted more scrutiny of the worker center phenomenon.
>
> In July, the House Education and Workforce Committee requested information
> from Labor Secretary Thomas Perez about the Department of Labor's (DOL)
> stance with regard to worker centers. Specifically, the committee asked DOL
> to provide "an official determination" about certain worker centers'
> compliance with the Labor-Management Reporting and Disclosure Act (LMRDA),
> which requires labor organizations to adhere to democratic governance
> requirements and to file annual financial disclosure information with DOL.
>
> In it response, DOL stated that it would not comment on any ongoing
> investigations, but that it had previously determined that OUR Walmart and a
> restaurant industry worker center called the Restaurant Opportunities Center
> (ROC) were not covered by the LMRDA for various reasons. While not
> unexpected, DOL's response struck the House committee as inadequate to say
> the least, and it followed up with a request for more documentation
> explaining how these determinations were made.
>
> At last week's hearing, the author of a law review article exploring the
> legality of worker centers testified about the increase in worker center
> activities that seem to blur, if not outright cross, the line between a
> "labor organization" covered by labor laws versus a non-profit group that is
> not. By engaging with employers about working conditions, these groups act
> in many ways like unions that seek many of the same objectives using many of
> the same tactics.
>
> As their protests and activities continue to increase, further scrutiny of
> worker centers by Congress will help ensure that Labor's new strategy will
> at least not include skirting the law. Surely this is not too much to ask.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 21:07:37 -0400
> From: Michael Smith <mjs at smithbowen.net>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Doug, on Salon
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID: <20131012210737.2c7574fb at smithbowen.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 11:33:53 +1100
> Bill Bartlett <william7 at aapt.net.au> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 13/10/2013, at 11:22 AM, Michael Smith <mjs at smithbowen.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> I wonder whether it might not be taking it a bit too far to
>>>> suggest that what he calls "rentier" capitalism could be a stable
>>>> economic system?
>>>
>>> Has there ever been such a thing as a 'stable economic system'?
>>
>> I stand corrected. "Viable" economic system then.
>
> Not to quibble even more, but I have no idea what
> 'viable' even means in this context. 'Stable', at least,
> I understand.
>
> I don't intend all this by way of picking nits, but
> I sense unexamined assumptions hovering in the wings.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 21:17:33 -0400
> From: Michael Smith <mjs at smithbowen.net>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Doug, on Salon
> To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org
> Message-ID: <20131012211733.447b90d6 at smithbowen.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 19:45:29 -0500
> "Carrol Cox" <cbcox at ilstu.edu> wrote:
>
>> Japanese Feudalism was pretty stable.
>
> I don't know the first thing about 'Japanese
> Feudalism', but as a general principle -- I daresay
> Carrol would agree -- taxonomy in itself tends
> to obscure variation, and distance still more.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 20:23:42 -0500
> From: "Carl G. Estabrook" <galliher at illinois.edu>
> Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] sailing poem
> To: <lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org>
> Message-ID: <1F4B358D-9981-4189-BCF9-EFA071E91E20 at illinois.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> [A poet even more unfashionable than Pound, but no knives, tho' much gray, I suppose...]
>
> ...There lies the port; the vessel puffs her sail;
> There gloom the dark, broad seas. My mariners,
> Souls that have toiled, and wrought, and thought with me---
> That ever with a frolic welcome took
> The thunder and the sunshine, and opposed
> Free hearts, free foreheads---you and I are old;
> Old age hath yet his honor and his toil.
> Death closes all; but something ere the end,
> Some work of noble note, may yet be done,
> Not unbecoming men that strove with gods.
> The lights begin to twinkle from the rocks;
> The long day wanes; the slow moon climbs; the deep
> Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends.
> 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.
> Push off, and sitting well in order smite
> the sounding furrows; for my purpose holds
> To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths
> Of all the western stars, until I die.
> It may be that the gulfs will wash us down;
> It may be that we shall touch the Happy Isles,
> And see the great Achilles, whom we knew.
> Though much is taken, much abides; and though
> We are not now that strength which in old days
> Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are---
> One equal temper of heroic hearts,
> Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
> To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
>
> [from Tennyson's Ulysses, 1842]
>
>
> On Oct 12, 2013, at 6:41 PM, "JOANNA A." <123hop at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Yes. That's very good. But I need one with a little less gray and no sharp knives.
>>
>> Joanna
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> Too ashamed to say why, but does anyone happen to think of a good/short poem or
>> part of a poem that talks about sailing or sailing ships or the lure of the sea?
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Joanna
>>
>> *****************
>> Probably the most famous one is John Masefield's "Sea Fever": "I must go down to the sea again,...", etc.
>>
>> Ji,m
>>
>
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