Barrington Moore argued back in the early 1960s that what distinguished successful "bourgaeois democracies" (UK, U.S., France) from unsuccessful ones (Germany, Italy) was that the former had been able to fight out their civil wars _free_ from external intervention. I can't remember the details of his argument (or even the title of the book), but it greatly impressed me at the time.
If Moore's argument is at all correct, there will be no democracies (of any sort) in the rest of the world until the ability of the U.S. & NATO to intercede is seriously hampered by internal dissent. It's up to us.
Carrol
P.S. In a related thread, Doug writes: " I'm reading Halberstam's Best & Brightest now and yes, a bunch of them really believed this shit - and refused to believe reports from the field that it was all a wreck."
It is an excellent book, but the assertion made here needs qualification. When Kennedy proclaimed, "We will pay any price," he almost certainly knew that he was declaring unlimited war on the people of the so-called "Third World." Probably most of the intellectuals who supported Kennedy, Johnson, et al believed this nonsense, but as to those who crafted the policy -- ?????. In any case Kennedy & Johnson belong on any list of the Great War Criminals of the 19th/20th centuries.
-----Original Message----- From: lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org [mailto:lbo-talk-bounces at lbo-talk.org] On Behalf Of MM Sent: Monday, January 25, 2016 9:54 AM To: lbo-talk at lbo-talk.org Subject: Re: [lbo-talk] Slogans Demands etc
> On Jan 24, 2016, at 12:03 PM, JOANNA A. <123hop at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Yes. And in the U.S., 2016, the content of "Peace" is "Cops off the Street."
"Three Basic Facts.
"One: the people came out in January 2011 under a straightforward banner: “Bread. Freedom. Social Justice”.
"Two: despite all claims to the contrary, no one made the people come out. Yes, activists articulated and politicised their demands; facilitated the protests and the sit-ins; tried to protect and save individuals from Mubarak, the police and the military; but the people – under a certain confluence of circumstances – came out of their own accord. And they knew what they wanted.
"Three: the people are realising that they are further than ever from their aims. The killings they suffered, the fascist phase when they colluded in the killing of others – all count for nothing. The grand projects touted by the government – even if they are real – will have no effect on the lives of the poor. The number of ordinary citizens detained and ill-treated by the security services is higher than ever. Even in its chosen war, the “war on terror”, the regime fails: our soldiers and citizens are killed in Sinai every day. The infrastructure of people’s daily lives – hospitals, schools, transport, employment – is getting worse. The reasons people came out in 2011 are still there – are more acute.”
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2016/jan/23/arab-spring-five-years-on-writers-look-back
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