>>> Paul Henry Rosenberg <rad at gte.net> 12/04 5:02 PM >>>
Charles Brown wrote:
>
> I've been trying to catch up on this thread.
> I have to echo Christopher Niles note of
> amazement below at what seem to be
> several white people quite righteously
> bandying about an analysis of whether
> a Black person is a racist.
>
> It is still the best understanding of this
> that Black people cannot be reverse
> racists. That is , Black people might be
> prejudice against white people , but
> there is a qualitative difference between
> the prejudice of Blacks against whites and
> vice versa, because, of the group dominance
> of whites over Blacks and its long history.
> This doesn't mean Black prejudice is
> a virtue. It is also basically based on
> a reaction to the history and ongoing
> fact of white supremacy.
This is the standard line, but it's BS.It takes an important truth, _________
Charles: Please state the important truth in a non-rigid manner that doesn't instinctively smell fishy to most Americans.
and expresses it in a rigid manner that instinctively smells fishy to most Americans. _______
Charles: My experience is that it is not so fishy to Black Americans. It is troublesome to many White Americans. I can see that. If it wasn't , the problem would be solved. That is smells fishy to whites today ( it didn't always as much in the middle of the radical reform of the 1960's) is itself the fact of racism 1990's style. Exactly.
It's routinely used, as you have used it, to BLOCK OUT the actually existing text before you, and replace it with another. _________
Charles: I am not sure what text you are talking about that it blocks out. Why don't you say what the blocked out text is ? Then I'll critique that directly and you will see that nothing is blocked out by the argument.
________
If you want to eliminate the white race, then you've got to see that racism afflicts all of us, both within and without. ________
Charles: Actually, I think that's Niles approach. I don't approach it as eliminate the white race. I would say the "white race" is largely European culture. In this era especially,, it has made many contributions to the wealth of human culture. It has, contradictorily, brought us some real dangers (nuclear weapons, racism, et al.) But I wouldn't want to throw out the European baby with the bathwater. It would be more purge the White culture of its dangers. It is European culture which mainly brings humanity capitalism/communism.
I'm for eliminating racism, not the white race.
_________ Naturally it afflicts us all differently, but it afflicts us all, nonetheless. This SHOULD be a step forward, making it possible to talk about racism and stare it down, rather than brandishing it like a bloody shirt. ________
Charles: The thing on this is that Black forms of racism against themselves are MUCH less of a problem than white forms of racism. You make it sound like racism is equally a problem of Black and White peoples' conduct. That is off. Your calling it the standard line does not demonstrate by argument and facts that the standard line is BS. The rest of your posts in this thread have not either.
We haven't reached the point where whites, the main bearers of racism, can readily instruct blacks on blacks own self-hate or self-racism. You haven't demonstrated such a high level of anti-racist consciousness on this list that you can assume such a role of instructing a Black person such as Chrisotopher Niles on his self-hate and internalized racism.
By the way, I would not say that Paul Rosenberg is a racist from his general posting on this list. I would even say he is a stronger anti-racist than the average person today. I would sharply criticize his analysis of the current issue.
However, this position is truly a new form of , lets say, white chauvinism, a real form of left conservativism. It is always amazing how racism is so resilient in finding new forms of expression or influencing even non-racists. This is its multivariate perversity.
I will forward this post to some other Black activists to get their feedback.
Charles Brown
Black Power !
> >>> Christopher Niles <cniles at ricochet.net> 12/04 8:56 AM >>>
MY ERASED TEXT:
> >How any of this proves that a given post of his isn't racist is beyond
> >me, however. A good deal of what he writes seems dedicated (consciously
> >or not) to racial mystification (in the name of the exact opposite,
> >natch!) A racist streak in such thinking is hardly unheard of. We all
> >know we live in a racist society, and have to struggle against
> >internalized racism on an ongoing basis. One needn't be playing "holier
> >than thou" to call things as you see them.
>
> Yet another "white" man accusing a Black man of having "racist"
> tendencies.
"internalized racism," that's what I said. The evidence of this in black culture is so wide and various, it takes a truly astonishing act of denial to ignore it. It's one of the WORST things that blacks have had to struggle against. Pretending it doesn't exist simply denies one of the most important struggles that black people have waged throughout their history in America.
-- Paul Rosenberg Reason and Democracy rad at gte.net
"Let's put the information BACK into the information age!"