>I do not like, I am exceedingly pissed off at, this "lots of
>'revolutionaries.'" I simply don't believe they exist as any significant
>presence on the left, just as I decided a few weeks ago that I simply did
>not believe in the existence, on any significant scale, of a "humorless
>left," and just as I don't believe, in fact, in the existence on any
>significant scale of most of the other "lefts" that so many leftists seem
>so anxious to whine about.
Golly gee and holy cow, Carrol, isn't this reaction a bit extreme? Are you so easily "pissed off" or did I step on some virtual bunion?
I guess you've known a better grade of revolutionary than I have. Sorry if my observation comes off as whining. I was actually trying for something closer to an incantation.
>The leftists on this list, I dare say, can be divided with little
>remainder into two groups: those whose practice has involved almost
>continuous close collaborative work with religious people for as many
>years as they have been on the left (in my case 30+) and those whose
>relationship to religious people consists of whining to other leftists
>about how we have to work with religious people. And religious people who
>can be worked with are not so damned tender either. They can take it.
Since I don't claim to know all the folks on this list as well as you seem to, I can't dispute your characterization, but then my comments were not meant to stereotype that half of the list who've devoted their political lives to work with religious people. Maybe this list is made up of lot more spiritually oriented radicals than I had imagined from reading the traffic of late. At any rate, I think we were discussing that element of the religious world broadly characterized as the "religious right" or Christian convervatives. I dare say that that half the list in which you include yourself probably doesn't have a whole lot of experience working with practitioners of those faith traditions. (You seem to specialize in Catholics.) I began my contribution to this discussion by observing that it would be a mistake to lump them all together and pointed to my own experience with people in the Pentecostal and Evangelical world who are anything but reactionary, conservative, rightwing on a whole range of social issues. Sorry if I strayed from accepted gospel (oops, wisdom).
>As the gulf war was nearing an end and the anti-war movement was melting
>away, our committee here had what proved to be a last meeting, and at one
>point the question of when to schedule our next meeting, and I suggested
>the following Sunday. "That's Easter Sunday," someone remarked, and I
>spontaneously squeaked out, "Oh those damned christians." Everyone laughed
>good-naturedly (and my wife and I happened to be the only non-catholics in
>the room).
Which may go to prove that those Christians have a better sense of humor than many of the lefties I've met.
>
>That's been my experience for nearly 35 years. That's been the experience
>of almost every leftist from different parts of the country with whom I've
>worked. Never once, in those decades, have I ever heard any fellow leftist
>get up and claim that we musn't work with christians. And yet this stupid
>thread has been going on as if the revolution depended on convincing all
>those leftists around that they should stop spitting in the face of their
>christian comrades.
That proves it. You've definitely encountered both Christians with well-preserved funny bones, and a better grade of lefty.
>Shit!
>
>Carrol
Did I say anything that suggested this was about Lefities typically advocating refusing to work with Christians? Knock that scarecrow down if you like, but that's not a point I made. If it came off that way, I guess I'll just have to whine with greater clarity.
In solidarity and with as little fecal matter as possible, Michael E.