> One simple way to consider this logically
> is the following. Take someone who holds
> Freedom of Speech as their highest political
> ideal. It is absurd for them to advocate in
> favor of "freedom" to argue for
> the end of the right of free speech !
> This is exactly what the Nazis , KKK and
> fascists advocate and institute: the end
> of freedom of speech. So, if their ideas
> succeed and persuade, they will lead
> to the end of the most important
> institution in the "free speecher's" opinon !
> Even radical free speechers should oppose
> the right to advocate the end of free speech
> or fascism.
It is not absurd for me to defend their right to speak. I think my position(s) are the correct ones and I expect to convince, if not the Nazi, at least members of the audience, that his position is flawed. It makes perfect sense to allow him to speak.
> The legal standard of international law
> on this issue, in the Convention on Genocide
> and The internation convenant on human rights,
> et al. is to outlaw incitement and advocacy
> of racism and genocide, unlike the more
> backward U.S. standard of the Supreme
> Court case of _Brandenburg vs. Ohio_. As
> noted in this thread, France, a fully "democratic"
> country makes denial of the WWII holocaust
> a crime. The fascist Le Pen was convicted
> under it recently. Canada has a similar
> law. The former socialist countries had
> laws outlawing advocacy of racism.
>
>
> Charles Brown
>
> Outlaw the Nazis and KKK.
Thanks for the additional support for my position! I hadn't thought to include LePen and France in my argument! As I mentioned in a previous post (and nobody has chosen to respond to), Germany outlawed the Nazi party and all of its symbols and literature 50 years ago. That has not limited the development of a significant neo-Nazi movement. In fact, by driving it underground, it may have made it much more virulent. Shine the light of day on these cretins. Expose them to examination and ridicule. Don't make martyrs or "oppressed" people of them, it doesn't help.
Similarly, Germany has outlawed the Church of Scientology. Whatever for? AFAICT, it is a church for flaky yuppies with too much money to burn. Fuck 'em if they want to piss their money away. I'd much sooner advocate making the Catholic Church or the CofE illegal for their actions as tools of oppression of the imperial powers. Bring the Pope up on charges of crimes against the women in developing counties that can't get birth control because of his actions. But banning a church because its "weird" seems to prove my point that the State really shouldn't be trusted in this area.
--
Joseph Noonan jfn1 at msc.com