friedrich list, THE ULTIMATE IDEALIST

Arno Mong Daastøl arnomd at online.no
Fri Sep 25 00:03:05 PDT 1998


Dear Rakesh, First, read the source itself and not ignorant second hand sources. Second, be not persistant in what you do not know first hand.

I am not going to answer any comment on Adolph Wagner, since I know too little of him, but List a racist? Forgive me, this is comic!

Franz Neumann's Behemoth has turned List upside down in a number of aspects. The publishing house that printed Franz Neumann's Behemoth's book must be A) completely ignorant B) very sloppy C)politically motivated. - Blaming an enemy for being the opposite of what he is (in this case an anti-racist and political liberalist), or ridiculing him, may be an efficient way of making him less threatening.

First trade, then race and then political liberalism:

Trade:

"The system of protection

appears to be the most efficient means of furthering the final union of nations, and hence also of promoting true freedom of trade." (* 1841, p.126)

It is quite correct that List advocated protection, but only oin order to approach free trade in the future. He saw the policy of the strongest nation Britain as that of a monopolist and wanted to counter this by building up competition under temporary protection. He pointed to the similar role of the US in the future.


>List was thus to the first to develop the theory that
>Hitler brought to full flower in Mein Kampf and the National Socialist
>foreign policy

This is as ignorant as it is possible to get!

List advocated labour saving innovation policy, whereas the Nazis used labour intensive policies.

Then to the issue of race:

">imbue the whole people with the spirit of racial superiority"

Comment: The following section and quote from my coming article should be telling enough:

List' promotes racial integration

List's awareness of the role of power also made him aware of the role of racial matters. As noted he argued against slavery both on humanitarian and economic reasons and is yet another example that he in general saw no conflict between justice and economic efficiency. His adherence to the idealist school in philosophy (as opposed to the "materialist / biological" school), of Plato, Cusa and Leibniz, is also demonstrated by this anti-racist stance. This ridicules once again those who see him as a forerunner of National Socialism or Nazism as they confuse his idealist nationalism with the later materialist nationalism.

"It is an old observation, that the human race, like the various breeds of animals, is proved mentally and bodily by crossings;

It is undeniable that the mixing of two quite different races results, almost without exception, in a powerful and fine future progeny; and this observation extends to the mixing of the white race with the black in the third and the fourth generation. This observation seems to confirm more than anything the fact, that those nations which have emanated from a crossing of race frequently repeated and comprising the whole nation, have surpassed all other nations in power and energy of the mind and character, in intelligence, bodily strength, and personal beauty." (The National System, 1841, p.220)

As opposed to List's viewpoints, one might point out the British founders of a "science" of white racial superiority and the "science" of Eugenics like Charles Darwin (1859, The Origin of Species, with the less known subtitle Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life), his cousin Francis Galton (Hereditary Genius, 1869) who founded the British Eugenics Society, and Herbert Spencer (1885) who coined the modern term Survival of the Fittest (although the concept was as old as Empedoclus) and wrote a classificatory book on races. See also http://www.africa2000.com/ENDX/aepage.htm.

Then liberalism:

List's claims that the content of his main book The National System (* 1841) could summed up in two words; freedom and national unity.

"The spirit of enterprise, economic progress, technical knowledge, and artistic skill develops only in countries enriched by political and religious freedom." (* 1837 a, p.164)

"It has been the experience of all ages and of all countries that freedom and industrial progress are like siamese twins." (* 1837 a, p.153)

And to finish off with a lengthy quote that is an atack on the materialism of both Smith and Marx, perhaps inspiring Max Weber later on, List wrote,

"Christianity, monogamy, and freedom are more likely top foster the development of productive powers than Mohammedanism, polygamy, and servitude or a very limited amount of freedom. And there are even significant differences between the productive powers of the adherents of various Christian churches.

Nature supplements and increases men's productive powers and output by the power of water, wind, animals, and steam. But men can use these natural powers to establish advanced types of workshops and factories only after they have made the requisite intellectual progress. They must be enlightened and well educated and they should have a good knowledge of science as well as high standards of technical skill. Consequently the workers in an advanced country have a much greater output than workers in a backward country.

It follows that certain conditions must be fulfilled before men's productive powers, and their intellectual and physical labours, can be successfully applied to the production of material goods that have an exchange value. There must be good laws, effectively enforced. Persons and property must enjoy the maximum security. The people must have high moral and religious standards so that superstition, prejudice and vice can be rooted out. There must be a good system of education. Science and the arts must be zealously fostered. Workshops and factories must receive adequate protection. There should be a harmonious balance between all branches of production. In general the whole national economy should be stimulated. The government should safeguard economic prosperity at home and should protect the country from foreign aggressors. Moreover the labours of those who promote the expansion of productive powers are just as productive as those who actually make goods that have an exchange value.

Our opponents might argue that the principle we have advanced could be interpreted as meaning that economic prosperity is related to the number of lawyers, parsons, soldiers, teachers, and scholars who are working in a country. It is easy to refute this sophism. Intellectual production and brainwork - like manual labour and the production of material goods - cannot be measured by counting the numbers of individuals concerned." (* 1837 a, pp.184-185)

-----Original Message----- From: owner-lbo-talk at lists.panix.com [mailto:owner-lbo-talk at lists.panix.com]On Behalf Of Rakesh Bhandari Sent: Thursday, September 24, 1998 5:34 PM To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com Subject: RE: friedrich list, THE ULTIMATE GLOBALIST

OK this thread has gone on long enough.


>From Franz Neumann's Behemoth: The Structure and Practice of National
Socialism:

"The influence of the so called state or Katheder socialists upon the ultimate development of National SOcialist racism seems far more important. The writings of Friedrich List and Adolph Wagner clearly show the factors that contributed to the triumph of racial ideas. These men were attempting to coutneract socialist theories of class struggle by repudicating liberal political thought and by setting up a state capitalist scheme that would 'incorporate' the working classes and imbue the whole people with the spirit of racial superiority...England must recongize, List declares, that Germany cannot become strong on the basis of free trade. Free trade is a fit doctrine only for a nation that is already powerful. Germany is disunited and weak, and only protective tariffs can assure her political unity and economic power. Germany has to become strong so that she is able to keep Englands's competitors, France and Russia, at bay...List was thus to the first to develop the theory that Hitler brought to full flower in Mein Kampf and the National Socialist foreign policy attempted to realize during the years preecding the German Russia non aggression pact of 1939: a redivision of the earth between Germany and England on the basis of German racial superiority." (pp104-106)

best, rakesh



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