Burford's post re Yoshie

Chris Burford cburford at gn.apc.org
Tue Apr 6 12:58:00 PDT 1999

I want to make some things clear. I do not support imperialist war. Of course not. Not in the sense of a war of oppression by an imperialist ruling class against an oppressed nation. Many will say, Oh yes you do, and it will be self-evidently so to them.

I have laid out my own views as far as the views of any one individual count, in the post I forwarded on Workers Aid to Kosovo.

That spells out the basis on which I considered defence of the right to self-determination of the Kosovans to be proportionate and just against a fascist attack on that right. I am not in favour of a general attack on the Serbian economy. I was the first to send a post drawing attention to first attack on a Bridge in Novi Sad and its likely significance. That is a matter of record and in the archives. I can copy it to people if they wish.

I think the following passage from an article in the Guardian today is a powerful criticism of the imperialist nature of the war as it has developed in the last few days in particular.

> So we're going to
> bomb Serbia to
> smithereens. And
> then what?
> By Paul Rogers
> Tuesday April 6, 1999
>As the Kosovo war enters its third week,
>Nato's policy is becoming clear - to
>prosecute a potentially devastating air war
>against Serbia in order to force the
>Milosevic regime to halt the ethnic
>cleansing in Kosovo and withdraw military
>and police forces from the province. This
>would allow some form of guaranteed
>protectorate to be established, pending a
>longer-term settlement.
>Nato's actions in the past three days have
>been highly significant, notably the
>increased targeting of Serbian
>infrastructure, including bridges, factories
>and power plants. In addition, specialised
>reinforcements are being assembled, with
>the prospect of a major expansion in the air
>war by the end of this week. Some attacks
>will be directed at Serbian forces in
>Kosovo, but there are few expectations that
>these will have much effect. Instead, a
>sustained programme designed
>progressively to destroy the Serbian war
>economy will get under way.

The other thing I want to emphasise is that I did not call Yoshie a social fascist.

I am grateful for some defence and support from Max but the statement below is not true and I do not want it to become one of the myths of this list.

>Careful. Only one leftist (Burford) called Y a social fascist,
>and even so he was talking about her ideas, not herself.

I said she was supporting social fascism, and I made clear the context of my criticism. I did not say she was a fascist.

Yoshie is a good person, but none of us exists in a neutral vacuum. The point I challenged her on, (and it is not clear that it was my post in particular that made her wish to get on with other work) was about reproducing uncritically Serb nationalist material which claimed to be socialist.

I thought carefully about my words. I certainly intended to startle. I am quite sure that Yoshie can look after herself. Her decision to leave the list may have been quite an assertive gesture to make her point. But if Yoshie seriously thinks she has been called a fascist I am happy to say I regret that impression.

The point at issue, that Yoshie herself articulated, is opposition to comparisons with Hitler and fascism. My view is that there are indeed comparisons, and comparisons with the imperialist policy of appeasement before World War II. Of course none of this makes sense if you do not think there should have been an anti-fascist united front including imperialist nations in World War II. Perhaps subscribers from certain countries like the USA and Germany have little knowledge of the debate that is relevant for countries like Britain and France of the policy of appeasement.

In view of how this thread has taken a life of its own, without reference to what I said, I attach "Burford's post re Yoshie"

If Doug has received a communication from Yoshie that she specifically objected to it, I will apologise.

I attach after it the post from the Youth Wing of the New Communist Party of Yugoslavia, to which I refer.

Chris Burford



X-Authentication-Warning: mail.gn.apc.org: Host userk527.uk.uudial.com [] claimed to be default X-Sender: cburford at pop.gn.apc.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:59:57 +0100 To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com From: Chris Burford <cburford at gn.apc.org> Subject: Re: Balkan CPs joint statement-29.3.1999 Sender: owner-lbo-talk at lists.panix.com Reply-To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com

At 15:10 31/03/99 -0500, Yoshie thought it internationalist to forward

>Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1999 22:44:29 +0100
>From: Asteras Amaliadas <jm6 at st-andrews.ac.uk>
>To: Left Wing Union <leftwing at st-andrews.ac.uk>
>Subject: Balkan CPs joint statement-29.3.1999
>Joint statement of the Communist Parties of the region condemning
>NATO intervention

While these organisations may be different, what is the evidence that their claims to marxism are marxist. In particular the New Communist Party of Yugoslavia, has taken the name of Yugoslavia without any attempt to acknowledge the need to build the unity of nations through non-cercion and respect for the right of nations to self-determination.

Their youth wing has just issued a racist "colour blind" statement that makes no mention of the Albanians desire for autonomy and independence.

>The CPs of the Balkans condemn the NATO intervention in our region. They
>express the conviction that both the Serb and Albanian peoples; as well
>as the other peoples of the Balkans, are able, by themselves and without
>any foreign intervention, to solve their problems peacefully.

So why could there not have been a velvet divorce between Kosovo and Serbia as occurred between Slovakia and the Czech Republic.

The reality is that ethnic clearing has been planned on a mass scale.

Yoshie is supporting social fascism.

Chris Burford


X-Authentication-Warning: mail.gn.apc.org: Host majordom at buo319b.econ.utah.edu [] claimed to be lists.econ.utah.edu To: marxism-unmoderated at buo319b.econ.utah.edu From: "Ivan Pavlovic" <ipavlovi at f.bg.ac.yu> Subject: M-U: Statement by Secretariat of SKOJ Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1999 01:01:24 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Sender: owner-marxism-unmoderated at buo319b.econ.utah.edu Reply-To: marxism-unmoderated at buo319b.econ.utah.edu

Dear comrades,

On April 24th 1999. western imperialists, led by USA, attacked territory of SR Yugoslavia. NATO air strikes repeat day after day. Yugoslavian army successfully defends territory of our country. Goal of western imperialists is very clear, they want to bring occupation troops on territories of Kosovo and Metohija (which is integral part of Serbia and SR Yugoslavia) and to install NATO bases on that area. Their second goal is dismemberment of SR Yugoslavia trough support they give to separatistic, pro-west elements in Montenegro. Third goal, and main at the same time, of imperialistic bandits is setting marionetic, pro-west government in Belgrade. Also, air strikes on our country represent direct military support to pro-imperialistic, terroristic organization KLA, which directly serves New World Order. League of Yugoslavian Communistic Youth (SKOJ) actively joined defense of SR Yugoslavia and struggle against imperialism which attacks our country. Same thing done our Party, New Communistic Party of Yugoslavia (NKPJ) which called upon their members to join mobilization and to fulfill their patriotic and anti-imperialistic duty in that way. SKOJ thanks to all communistic, worker's, revolutionary, guerilla and anti-imperialistic organizations in the world which support SR Yugoslavia by organizing demonstrations and other actions against NATO intervention. We, communists of Yugoslavia, will never forget internationalistic solidarity of our comrades all around the world. We call upon all communists-internationalists from lands of NATO to continue with pressures on their imperialistic governments in order to stop military intervention of our common enemy. NKPJ, SKOJ and people of Yugoslavia won't allow occupation of our country. We will continue the struggle for freedom until ultimate ending of intervention of NATO on SR Yugoslavia. DOWN WITH AMERICAN, BRITISH, GERMAN AND FRENCH IMPERIALISM!! DOWN WITH NATO! LONG LIVE MARXISM-LENINISM! LONG LIVE PROLETERIAN INTERNATIONALISM! LONG LIVE YUGOSLAVIA!

Secretariat of SKOJ

NKPJ-SKOJ Nemanjina 34 11000 Beograd Yugoslavia mrta_belgrade at writeme.com nkpj at iname.com http://members.tripod.com/nkpj/ - JOIN OUR MAILING LIST http://members.theglobe.com/skojyu/ http://members.tripod.com/mrta_beograd/ tel/fax: +381.11.642985

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