In message <v04003a01b3d72f37c042@[209.54.19.101]>, Eric Beck <rayrena at accesshub.net> writes
>So it's fruitless to hope for and strive toward less work? By this logic
>the fight for the eight-hour day was just a wasteful, capital-strengthening
>exercise. The push for living wages, and strikes, wildcat and organized, as
>well.
>
>I see what you are saying: it's a shame that we have resigned ourselves to
>suffering at capital's mercy and settled for piecemeal reform. According to
>what you state above, attempting to alleviate the ill-effects is
>self-defeating, which I agree can certainly be a danger that everyone
>should guard against. But how far do you extend that principle? Is all that
>we can hope for is the absolute, immediate destruction of capitalism? Is
>anything short of that a sellout that merely plays into the hands of
>capital? Seems to me full employment and fair wages are the only things
>worth fighting for *within* capitalism.
I wasn't arguing against a fight for full employment ('work or full pay' was the extended slogan). I am saying that it is wrong-headed to try to achieve it by arguing that technology be arrested at the level of onerous and back-breaking labour.
In message <14257.39812.988763.969370 at lisa.zopyra.com>, William S. Lear <rael at zopyra.com> writes
>I think you are missing the fundamental point. When you substitute
>capital for onerous labor, your point is quite reasonable. When you
>substitute it for fulfilling work, you lose something, and you must
>begin to ask much more complex questions. The goal seems to me to be
>to attempt to convert farming, much of it anyway, to more fulfilling
>work. Perhaps this is not possible, of course, but that is another
>question.
In Britain, as in America, the greater part of farm goods are produced by agri-business. Small farms are largely inefficient. In consequence, they are going out of business.
What should be done? I would say, retrain the redundant farmers on full pay for work they can earn a living with. For many years governments in Europe and America have resisted that solution by subsidising farmers. That's not bad in itself, but drawn to its conclusion, it means that we are subsidising their hobbies. -- Jim heartfield