Michael Perelman wrote:
>Didn't Doug once report that Telos gets Moonie money?
Oh, that's rich. If so, and I doubt it, then Paul Piccone should reduce the subscription price!
The only possibility I see is that paleo-con writer, Paul Gottfried, scourage of neo-cons, a pretty frequent contributor to Telos, author of the new Princeton Univ. Press book, "After Liberalism," with blurbs I think from ex-Marxist-Feminist, Elizabeth Fox-Genovese and Jean Bethke Elshtain (now there are two "Left Conservatives"!) and Thomas Fleming, who has had a piece or two in Telos, is editor of Chronicles, the paleo-con monthly, and is also an ex-editor of the Moonie monthly, "This World and I"(???did I get that title right, it is a big waste of trees, articles from such as neo-cons like William Bennett and neo-libs like Alan Wolfe appear there. I guess Dentist's offices that get the Washington Times put it in their waiting room to torture you before they torture you in the chair...)
Justin Raimondo, of http://www.antiwar.com when Telos published the recent symposia on Kosovo responding to the French New Right author Alain deBenoist on the right, and the Pierre Bourdieu and neo-Trot intellectuals on the left, with their respective positions and petitions, threw a fit on the paleo-con list I lurk on. I occasionally post on it to annoy the Buchananites about Fulani and how their nostalgic Old Right small town decentralism is a will of the wisp dream.
Michael Pugliese (Below find some paleo-connery orneryness from Justin Raimondo, Craig Preus, Paul Piccone & co.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---
oriko- at ix.netcom.com wrote:> I will not participate in any discussion WITH
the> Telos people. They must be> expelled from this list, or I am out of
here. Why> are they pro-war? Could it be> because the Lower East Side where
the editor of> Telos has his loft is crawling> with Albanian Mafioso, and
Paul doesn't want his as> ass kicked? Or, perhaps, we> should follow the
money: who pays for his magazine> -- surely it doesn't pay for> itself. In
any case, proximity to the isle of> Manhattan explains a lot.> > -- Justin
R.> > craigpreu- at aol.com wrote:> > > traditionalis- at freedixie.net writes:>
>> > >Is this the crowd associated with the Frankfurt> School?> >> > Jim
Kalb's FAQ explains them thusly:> >> > 6.6 What are Frankfurt School>
Neopaleoconservatives?> >> > A group (so named for the first time in this
FAQ)> that has come by way of> > Frankfurt School cultural criticism to a
position> reminiscent of> > paleoconservatism emphasizing federalism,>
rejection of the therapeutic> > managerial state, and (most recently)
liturgy.> Their main publication is> > Telos, which now includes paleocon
Paul Gottfried> on its editorial board and> > publishes Chronicles editor
Thomas Fleming as well> as writers such as Alain> > de Benoist associated
with the European New Right.> > (http://www.panix.com/~jk/consfaq.html)> >>
> Here's his description of Telos: "The Frankfurt> School goes reac. The
search> > for federalism, tradition, communalism and liturgy> in
pomo-speak."> >>(http://freenet.buffalo.edu/~cd431/arc_resources.html)> >> >
That these guys support the war seems way, way,> WAY out of character.> >
Without starting a shouting match, can anyone> explain the situation? I'd
like> > to hear some responses.> >> > CP> >>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.egroups.com/list/paleo/md503735180.html
Yeah. The Frankfurt School of Ass-Kissing. They are ex-lefties who
supposedly saw the paleo light, but I must admit to never having read their
boring shit. Paul Gottfried writes for their rag.
Jim Langcuster wrote:
> Justin:
>
> Is this the crowd associated with the Frankfurt School?
>
> Jim
>
> oriko- at ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> > Fuck you, Telos. And fuck your degenerate ancestors. Go back to the Left
where
> > you belong.
> >
> > -- Justin Raimondo
> >
> > telospres- at aol.com wrote:
> >
> > > Attached you will find, as a compressed PDF file (which means that it
will
> > > have to be unzipped through Winzip and read through the Adobe Reader).
> > >
> > > We are for the war. We are against ethnic cleansing.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > pp
> > >
> > > Subject: Re: Western Europe Opposition?From: John S. Meyer The die is
cast.
-----Original Message-----
From: telospres- at aol.com telospres- at aol.com
To: paleo at egroups.com paleo at egroups.com
Date: Friday, April 09, 1999 11:16 AM
Subject: [Paleo] Re: Western Europe Opposition?
>Appended you will find an appeal being circulated by de Benoist concerning
>the war. On the other hand, for an interesting analysis of the
>anti-Americanism behind this opposition, see the article by Pascal Bruckner
>in Le Monde of April 7
>
>Paul Piccone
>
>
>Dear Sir,
>
>Here is the text of the manifesto we launch in France against NATO war in
the
>Balkans, with first signatories' mention. Please, could you diffuse it with
>my e-mail ?
>By advance thanks.
>Yours.
>
>THE EUROPEANS WANT PEACE !
>
>Wednesday 24th March 1999 will be remembered as a gloomy day in our
>history : for the first time since 1945, a European sovereign state is
being
>bombed by a military alliance under American command, with total contempt
for
>the rules of international law and in breach of the United Nations Charter.
>
>NATO's agression against Serbia is not acceptable and will only worsen the
>conflicts it is supposed to resolve. The first victims of the bombings are
>the Serbian and Albanese peoples, those very ones NATO's sorcerer's
>apprentices are pretending to help. This "humanitarian" motive is nothing
but
>a smokescreen which fools no-one : Palestinians, Kurds or Tibetans,
>struggling against oppression and for international recognition, have never
>had the benefit of any military support.
>NATO, originally a purely defensive alliance, is now, under our very eyes,
>turning into the willing instrument of American and Western aggression in
the
>world.
>
>The restoration of peace in the Balkan region is conditioned by an
immediate
>end to military operations, by a clear rejection of American strategies for
>dividing Europe, by the opening of genuine political and diplomatic
>negotiations with the aim to unite the parties through a long-term peace
>plan, i.e. a plan which takes into account the right of all peoples to
>self-determination.
>
>The signatories of this petition condemn the decision of the French
>and European governments to join this war without even consulting
>Parliaments. They invite French and European citizens to show by all means
>available their rejection of the American war in Europe and their sympathy
>with the civil populations that are being bombed.
>
>Join the International Committee « Non à la guerre / Stop the War »
>cchampeti- at aol.com
>
>
>SIGNATORIES
>
>PREMIERS SIGNATAIRES DE L'APPEL
>« Les Européens veulent la paix »
>- personnalités -
>
>ARTISTES
>Marc-Julien Arénas (réalisateur) . Francis AUGRY (cinéaste) . BEN
(peintre) .
>Irena BILIC (cinéaste) . Gérard Blain (cinéaste) . Serge BLOCH
(sculpteur) .
>Gérard COURANT (cinéaste) . Jean CURTELIN (scénariste) . Peter CVEJIC
>(architecte) . Jacques DERAY (réalisateur) . Tomislav GAREVSKI
(architecte) .
>Daniel GUICHARD (chanteur) . Jean-Pierre Jorris (acteur) . Roland LESAFFRE
>(acteur) . Pascal MARMIN (peintre) . Victor MARTIN (compositeur) . Georges
>MATHIEU (peintre) . Louis Monier (photographe) . Goran PASKALJEVIC
(cinéaste)
>. Sylvie PELAYO (comédienne) . Claude PIEPLU (acteur) . RENAUD (chanteur) .
>Jean VALVERDE (acteur) . George WOD (metteur enscène, directeur de
théâtre) .
>Nenad ZILIC (peintre) .
>
>ECRIVAINS - PHILOSOPHES - POETES
>Jean-Claude Albert-Weil (écrivain) . Luc-Olivier d'ALGANGE (écrivain) .
>Jacques d'Arribehaude (écrivain) . Guy Baartmans (romancier) . Jean-Claude
>Barreau (écrivain) . Jean-Marc BERTHOUD (théologien) . Patrick Besson
>(écrivain) . Alain de Benoist (philosophe) . Alphonse BOUDARD (écrivain) .
>Pierre Chalmin (écrivain) . Georges CLEMENT (écrivain) . Robert ColonNa
>d'Istria (écrivain) . Paul-Marie Coûteaux (écrivain) . André Coyné
(écrivain)
>. Ghislain de DIESBACH (écrivain) . Guy DUPRE (écrivain) . Frédéric Dutourd
>(écrivain) . Jean Dutourd (écrivain, académicien) . Michel Floquet
(écrivain)
>. Max Gallo (écrivain) . Général Pierre-Marie Gallois (écrivain, C.R.,
croix
>de guerre 1939-45) . Patrick GOFMAN (écrivain) . Claude GUDIN (écrivain) .
>Jacqueline GUDIN (écrivain) . Georges Haldas (écrivain) . Gisèle Halimi
>(avocate, écrivain) . Guy HENNEBELLE (écrivain) . Dominique Jamet
(écrivain)
>. Monique LACHERE (écrivain) . Christian LANCON (écrivain) . Bernard
LECONTE
>(écrivain) . Alain LEFEUVRE (poète) . Georges Londeix (écrivain) . Gabriel
>Matzneff (écrivain) . Michel Mourlet (écrivain) . Pierre MOUSTIER
(écrivain)
>. Milena Nokovitch (écrivain) . Louis NUCERA (écrivain) . Alain Paucard
>(écrivain) . Jean-Marie PAUPERT (écrivain) . Jean PHAURE (écrivain) .
Claude
>Polin (philosophe) . Jean Raspail (écrivain) . Maurice ROLLET (poète) .
>Claude Rousseau (philosophe) . Robert SAILLEY (historien) . Paul-Georges
>Sansonetti (historien) . Alain SEGONDS (chercheur) . Danica SELESKOVITCH
>(universitaire) . Philippe de Saint-Robert (écrivain) . Thierry Séchan
>(écrivain) . Paul Sérant (écrivain) . Gustave THIBON (philosophe) . Pol
>VANDROMME (écrivain) . Eric VATRE (écrivain) . Jean Villeumier (écrivain) .
>Vladimir Volkoff (écrivain, prix international de la Paix 1989) . Eric
Werner
>(philosophe)
>
>UNIVERSITAIRES - CHERCHEURS - ENSEIGNANTS
>Dimitri Analis (historien) . Stéphane Barbier (professeur) . Komnen
Becirovic
>(essayiste) . Pierre Bérard (journaliste) . Nicole BERRY (psychanalyste) .
>Christian BIZOUARD (astronome) . Jean-Paul Bled (professeur des
universités)
>. Jacques BONNET (géographe) . Jean Bounine (économiste) . Judith CABAUD
>(musicologue) . Jacques CELLARD (écrivain, philologue) . Catherine
Challandes
>(écrivain) . Guy CHAPOUILLIE (professeur de droit) . Robert CHARBIN
>(universitaire) . Jean-François CHIAPPE (historien) . Gérard Conio
>(professeur) . Philippe Conrad (historien) . Pascal DORIGUZZI
(politologue) .
>Michel DROUET (universitaire) . Bruno ETIENNE (chercheur) . Michel FLEURY
>(historien) . André Guillou (historien) . Jacques HEERS (historien) .
Germain
>IVANOFF-TRINADTZATY (historien) . Alexandre KONDRATUK (chercheur) . Annie
>LACROIX-RIZ (universitaire) . Michel LEDERER (universitaire) . Bernard
LUGAN
>(historien) . Jean Mabire (historien) . Bogdan MANOJLOVIC (chercheur) .
>Georges Nivat (professeur) . Dominique PAOLI (historienne) . Christian
>PARMENTIER (chercheur) . Henri PENAZ-RUIZ (universitaire) . Maurice
Pergnier
>(linguiste) . Valérie de Poulpiquet (universitaire) . Maurice Régnier
>(professeur) . Serge REGOURD (universitaire) . Gabor RITTERSPORN
(historien)
>. Nikita STRUVE (professeur) . Georges Thines (professeur d'université) .
>Andréa ZINATO (linguiste)
>
>EDITEURS - JOURNALISTES - ESSAYISTES
>Christian AUTHIER (journaliste) . Florence de BAUDUS (journaliste) .
>Christian Brosio (journaliste) . Charles Champetier (essayiste) . Aymeric
>CHAUPRADE (essayiste) . Charles Conte (journaliste) . Jean-Paul CRUSE
>(journaliste) . Louis Dalmas (journaliste) . Jean-Pierre Deloux (directeur
>littéraire) . Alexandre Del Valle (essayiste) . Thierry Deransart
>(journaliste) . Eric DESCHODT (journaliste) . Slobodan Despot (éditeur) .
>Vladimir Dimitrijevic (éditeur) . Guillaume FAYE (journaliste) . Michel
>FROMENTOUX (journaliste) . Vladimir GEDILAGHINE (journaliste) .
Jean-Cyrille
>GODEFROY (éditeur) . Arnaud Guyot-Jeannin (essayiste) . Daniel HABREKORN
>(éditeur) . Robert LAFONT (éditeur) . Bernard LE SAUX (jounaliste) .
>Christophe Levalois (essayiste) . Maurice Livernault (journaliste) .
Frédéric
>LUZ (éditeur) . Michel Marmin (journaliste) . Jean-Jacques Mourreau
>(journaliste) . Norbert MULTEAU (journaliste) . Rémi Perrin (éditeur) .
>Patrice de Plunkett (journaliste, essayiste) . Grégory Pons (journaliste) .
>Milan Ratkovic (journaliste) . Pierre Guillaume de ROUX (éditeur) . Denise
>Roblin (éditeur) . Christian ROL (journaliste) . Jean-Pierre RUDIN
>(journaliste) . Louis Sorel (journaliste) . Alain de SWARTE (directeur de
>Combat nature) . Michel Toda (esayiste) . Guy Trédaniel (éditeur) .
>Jean-Claude VALLA (journaliste) . Frédéric VALLOIRE (journaliste) . Popomic
>Velimir (traducteur) . Olivier DELAVAULT (éditeur) .
>
>ASSOCIATIFS - SOCIETE CIVILE -POLITIQUES
>Colonel Patrick Barriot et Eve Crépin . Yves Bonnet (ancien député) .
Patrick
>BRUNOT (avocat) . Francis Choisel (président de l'Alliance pour la
>souveraineté de la France) . Jacques Dauer (secrétaire général de l'
Académie
>du gaullisme, croix de guerre 39-45) . Solange FERNEIX (Ligue
internationale
>des femmes pour la paix et la liberté) . Michel Enaud (AACP) . Gilles
Galliez
>(président de l'Association Solidarité France-République serbe) . William
>GoldnaDEL (président d'Avocat sans frontières) . Zahia Gonon (Cri pour
>l'Irak) . Andrée GRAIN (Solidarité palestinienne) . Roger Hutin (Centre
>européen pour la paix et le développement) . François LARDEAU (Académie
>française du gaullisme) . Alain Lecour (Alternative 21) . Lionnel LUCA
>(député) . Marie Mattei (secrétaire général de Téléobjectif) . Laurent Ozon
>(Nouvelle Ecologie) . Didier Patte (président du Mouvement normand) .
Monique
>Pelissier (Alternative 21) . Didier Perry (Mouvement Sang de la terre) .
Eric
>Pététin (ADVA) . Jean-Charles Personne (avocat à la Cour) . Xavier PAULY
>(CERFS) . Michel Pivert (président de l'APGA) . Gérald PRUVOST (Cercle
>européen d'Aquitaine) . Ginette Skandrani (Alternative 21) . Dr Doggui
>Slimane (CDDA) . Sophie Vieille (Citoyennes pour la paix)
>
>INTERNATIONAL COMMITTEE STOP THE WAR / NON A LA GUERRE
>
>LES INTELLECTUELS, ECRIVAINS ET PERSONNALITES
>DU MONDE ENTIER SOUTIENNENT LE COLLECTIF
>NON A LA GUERRE ET LE MANIFESTE
>« LES EUROPEENS VEULENT LA PAIX »
>
>- PREMIERS SIGNATAIRES -
>
>Christian ABBONDANZA (Gauche citoyenne, Italie) . Manuela ALESSIO
>(universitaire, Italie) . Marcella ANTONELLI (psychiatre, Italie) .
Federico
>BORDONARO (historien, Italie) . Edmundo BOUCAS (universitaire, Portugal) .
>Alberto BUELA (philosophe, Argentine) . Horacio CAGNI (politologue,
>Argentine) . Guido CAMPANINI (MEIC, Italie) . Alessandro CAMPI
(politologue,
>Italie) . Carlos CANCELLI (politologue, Argentine) . Franco CARDINI
>(historien, Italie) . Ricardo CAVALLO (Verts, Italie) . Alberto CENCI
>(universitaire, Italie) . Mario CONETTI (professeur, Italie) . Umberto
CROPPI
>(éditeur) . Maria Vittoria CUNELLIS (universitaire, Italie) . Luigi DE ANNA
>(historien, Finlande) . Gianfranco DELL'ISOLA (haut-fonctionnaire INAID,
>Italie) . Alberto DE SANCTIS (avocat, Italie) . Koenrad ELST (historien,
>Belgique) . José Javier ESPARZA (directeur d'Hespérides, Espagne) . Thomas
>FLEMING (directeur de Chronicles, Etats-Unis) . Luca GALLESI (journaliste,
>Italie) . Carlo GAMBESCIA (sociologue, Italie) . Christopher GERARD
>(philologue, Belgique) . Michele GIAMMARIO (Verts, Italie) . Antonello
>GIUGLIANO (universitaire, Italie) . Alberto GUERBEROF (Izquierda nacional,
>Argentine) . Horacio GUHILIN (Sindacato docenti, Argentine) . Peter HANDKE
>(écrivain, Autriche) . Marja Hamanmaa (historienne, Finlande) . Koenrad
>LOEGGHE (historien) . Giacomo MANZONI (compositeur, Italie) . Günther
MASCHKE
>(philosophe, Allemagne) . Alfredo MASON (universitaire, Argentine) . Denis
>MENOUD (ancien député, Suisse) . Politis NIKOS (journaliste, Grèce) . Luca
>PESENTI (universitaire, Italie) . Paolo PISI (universitaire, Abel POSSE
>(écrivain, Argentine) . Julio PRATA SEQUEIRA (éditeur, Portugal) . Marco
>Aurelio RIVELLI (historien) . Jeanie Toschi MARAZZANI VISCONTI
(journaliste,
>Italie) . Mimmo MAZZA (journaliste, Italie) . Alfred MECHTERSHEIMER
>(Fondation pour la paix, Allemagne) . Thomas MOLNAR (philosophe, Hongrie) .
>Adolfo MORGANTI (théologien, Itale) . Paul S. ROSSBY (chercheur,
Etats-Unis)
>. Paola PISI (universitaire, Italie) . Aurelio RIVELLI (historien,
Italie) .
>Defina SESSA (universitaire, Italie) . Sladjana STANKOVIC (artiste,
>Grande-Bretagne) . James STAUFFER (écrivain, Etats-Unis) . Marco TARCHI
>(universitaire, Italie) . Raju G.C. THOMAS (universitaire, Etats-Unis) .
>Marcelo ULANA (juriste, Argentine) . Gaston VOGEL (avocat à la Cour,
>Luxembourg) . Eduardo ZARELLI (éditeur, Italie) . Alexandre ZINOVIEV
>(écrivain, Russie) . Danilo ZOLO (universitaire, Italie)
>
>At any rate, Telos will be running a symposium on this subject in the next
>issue.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------Sub
ject: Re: the European New Right
From: michael smith
Dear Paul Piccone, Thanks for Benoist in English and _Telos_. Its
certainly one of the more interesting journals available today. I was
wondering if you might address Benoists apparent embrace of
multiculturalism in recent years in more detail. Does Benoist believe
that populations and cultures have already become jumbled to the point where
multiculturalism is an inevitability? Does he feel that an
anti-centralizing, localist approach in times such as ours will necessarily
involve devolution of powers to various local communities with widely
differing cultural roots? But isnt the multiculturalist ideology itself
an outgrowth of a universalizing multinational order that pays little regard
to rooted and autonomous local institutions? It does seem that whenever one
addresses questions of multiculturalism or diversity one necessarily
speaks in paradoxes. If a devolutionist position logically leads to further
decay of national institutions and their replacement by a new
multiculturalist, fragmented order/disorder is that good or bad? Is it a
logical application of principle or the sawing off of the branch beneath
oneself? There may be a parallel with the English
Thatcherite-turned-Blairite publicist John Greys recent writings on the
subject of ethnic minorities in contemporary society. Are such changes of
mind tactical changes justified by present circumstances or do they
represent real changes of position? Immigration is central to the debate,
although not always mentioned, but I imagine that the dynamic is more
complex than that. A.M. Smith -- On Mon, 22 Mar 1999 11:06:27 Telospress
wrote: Dear Paul Shetler and Greig Preus: I found the your latest exchange
concerning the European New Right interesting, but somewhat uninformed and
confused. For one thing, the Italian Lega Nord has been effectively
destroyed by its megalomanic leader Umberto Bossi. If there is any hope in
Northern Italy, one will have to look at the federalists in Veneto. Second,
the National Front is going through major internal struggles, as a result of
which Le Pen will probably be marginalized and the remaining party will go
pretty much the way of Alleanza Nazionale (which in the attempt to achieve
legitimation, has become more and more like the American Republican Party +
some silly nationalism). Third, the French New Right is neither as dead nor
as simplistic as you depict it. Check their new manifesto: "La Nouvelle
Droite de l'an 2000: Quel Horizon Ideologique apres l'Implosion des
Droites?" in the February 1999 issue of Elements. It remains as interesting
as even and one of the few groups in Europe with some sort of coherent
outlook. Fourth, Preus, as a Catholic, should be careful at poking fun at
Benoist "paganism." The Catholic Church right now is in such institutional
and doctrinal shambles to make the most ridiculous paganism look like a
viable alternative. At any rate, the problem with Benoist is a certain
unfamiliarity with the history of Catholicism -- especially the way the
early Franciscan, Dominican and other late 12th and early 13th century
monastic orders effectively integrated all pagan elements into Catholicism.
Thus to contrapose paganism and Catholicism is, in a way like contraposing
grand- father and grand-son. Christianity never really kicked out the native
idols: it merely renamed them and turned them into integral parts of
official doctrine. Paganism is alive and well within the deepest bowels of
the Catholic Church. At any rate, the history of the disintegration of
Christianity is all to be rewritten, beginning with the 13th century
Aristotelian involution and the real meaning of the Protestant Reformation,
which actually merely ratified something that had already taken place on
many levels within Catholicism. Finally, it is an illusion to think that the
Italian AN and Lega Nord have actually succeeded in altering predominant
political discourse. Federalism is off the political agenda, the ruling
coalition is simply interested in holding power, and any radical discourse
remains limited to marginal groups. Things will almost certainly change with
the end of the present economic boom, but the political initiative will have
to come from yet new sources. The Bossi, Le Pens and Miglios of the early
1990s have had their day and they were unable to capitalize. Regards, Paul
Piccone
............................................................................
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