Henwood supports third world captialist regimes? Gosh, this is sounding like the nonensical accusations that Teresa Ebert's epigones were throwing at Henwood a few years back on another list. What next, he's a pedaphile?
Steve
On Sun, 24 Jan 1999, Michael Yates wrote:
> Mark,
>
> Of course, one can always stop an argument by saying, well, there are
> plenty of persons worse off than you. I'm sure we could apply that to
> you or me or anyone. And I do not think that going from a Mexican ejido
> (communal farm) to a maquila is a net gain for a woman, though I am sure
> that the pre-Maquila position of these women is varied. And I am
> certain that everyone on these lists feels solidarity with maquila
> workers. But let's stick to debate and depersonalize things a bit.
> Whose life could not be subject to the most ruthless and vicious
> criticism? God, my three sons all dropped out of high school and took
> to drugs! What a rotten parent I must have been. We cannot know each
> other on the internet. So why try.
>
> michael yates
>
> Mark Jones wrote:
> >
> > Evidently sharecropping is a sensitive issue for American leftists, more so than the
> > fate of hundreds of millions of workers in Latin America, Asia and the neocolonies
> > generally. When Doug Henwood's open support of 3rd world capitalist regimes (which
> > actually is what his constantly repeated suggestion that capitalism is in some sense
> > beneficial in the neocolonial peripheries, amounts to) is not a subject for criticism,
> > but a relatively innocuous rejoinder becomes the occasion or excuse for his copping out
> > of the debate, and for a great deal of barracking, I'm bound to wonder about the
> > complacency and hypocrisy of those capable of such attitudinising. Believe me, if I'd
> > thought that the idea that he'd find excuses for sharecropping was such a whiz-bang
> > criticism, I'd have made it long ago. However, I can;t help feeling that despite my
> > best efforts to cause Henwood a little embarrassment, his discomfort this Sunday
> > morning is still somewhat less than those of the women sweating in the maquiladoras.
> >
> > Mark Jones
> > PS I'm taking a vow of silence on the subject of Henwood, so stop provoking me.
> >
> > Michael Yates wrote:
> >
> > > Friends,
> > >
> > > I have a thick skin, so I don't much care what people say to me. But if
> > > someone said to me what Mark Jones said to Doug Henwood (I.e that I'd
> > > tell black people that sharecropping was progressive...), he or she had
> > > better hope that they were a lot bigger than me. Those are fighting
> > > words and do not put the struggle forward one bit. They just lead to
> > > sectarianism, splits , etc. Mark, to paraphrase what was said to Dan
> > > Quayle in the vice-presidential debate in 1992, "you're no Karl Marx."
> > >
> > > michael yates
> > >
> > > Mark Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Leave the room, lose the argument (old trade union saying). I'm not impressed by
> > > > Doug Henwood quitting. It's not just the Marxism list he's leaving. I'll be
> > > > interested to see his next career moves.
> > > >
> > > > As for the maquiladoras, the only good thing about them will be if the
> > > > concentration of large numbers of workers in factories, does make it possible to
> > > > organise them. The idea that setting up sweatshops in the 3rd world has intrinsic
> > > > benefits -- that capitalism has a 'good side' and this is the 'complexity' we
> > > > have to understand -- is bullshit. It's a cop-out. It's class betrayal. It's
> > > > utter political cynicism. Treachery pure and simple. And it's theoretically
> > > > vacuous. Should we not tell this to Doug Henwood or anyone else because it hurts
> > > > his feelings and might lead to split?
> > > >
> > > > Mark Jones
> > > >
> > > > Doug Henwood wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Mark Jones wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Let's face it, if Doug Henwood had been a 'progressive' journalist 100 years
> > > > > >ago he'd have been selling sharecropping to southern blacks as a good
> > > > > >thing and
> > > > > >a step up.
> > > > >
> > > > > Fuck you, Mark. I'm outta here.
> > > > >
> > > > > Doug
>