On the list, when I suggested that certain attitudes and tactics were racist, I meant people conclude from unfamilar usages translated from a foreign language as proof that the content is "mindless" and deserving of parody. That may be a prejudice that those people have a right to hold to themselves. But they do not have a right to interact with me on that level and they certainly do not have the right to deny its racist nature. To have acted racist and then to deny having acted racist is double jeopardy.
Now your point that attitude reinforced by power takes on oppressive characteristics and if institutionalized becomes cultural is well taken. Such oppression can only be fought conceptually: such as teaching Black children: Black is Beautiful, or little boys to declare: I am a man. This problem is more acute in America where many minorities must seek survival in an oppressive majority-controlled society. People in other countries, Like China and Japan, the notion that they have to defend their natural humanity comes to life only when they interact with Westerners. Asians interact more harmoniously with Africans and Latinos, even though they are very different on many levels, becasue they interact on an equal basis. Of the five principles the PRC defined as a sound basis for foreign relations, equality is one and non-interference in internal affairs is another.
Henry C.K. Liu
kelley wrote:
> henry and charles,
>
> first, chaz, the excerpt i forwarded is a critique of iris marion young's
> work. she's trying to rework habermas's theory of justice. i think both
> you and wojtek have seriously misunderstood habermas's argument but i'll
> get to that elsewhere.
>
> Henry C.K. Liu wrote:
> >There is a social distinction between prejudice and discrimination.
> Prejudice is an attitude, discrimination is a categorical act.
> >Everyone is entitled to his/her prejudice. It is a peronal morality
> problem. But discrimination is overt oppression.
>
> it's not really a social distinction but rather a conceptual one. henry, i
> would suggest that you take the time to read the entirety of my post
> because i'm afraid you're missing out on the chance to pick up some new
> conceptual tools with which you might do battle against an aspect of racial
> oppression that you experience on these lists and elsewhere. your own
> argument seems to undermine your attempts to charge everyone with racism on
> this list.
>
> the prejudice/discrimination distinction is an old one in the sociological
> literature and these turn out to be rather inelegant concepts for capturing
> a rather complex process, since discrimination doesn't get off the ground
> without prejudice. acts just don't occur in the absence of an interpretive
> framework for understanding the world around you and what you believe your
> acts mean. there is, of course, the much researched puzzle that manifests
> itself in the following questions which i'll concretize:
>
> 1. how is that my chinese friends think americans are barbaric (their
> words) for eating whole wheat bread and tossed salads (raw vegetables) and
> for public displays of affection between men and women and yet their
> judgment has very little bearing on anything that happens in my life or in
> the lives of others like me?
>
> 2. how is it that someone can hold prejudiced beliefs, say that chinese
> men are overly aggressive [i understand your concerns henry a good friend
> of mine must deal with this issue all the time--being dismissed as a too
> easily angered chinese man], and yet not necessarily act in discriminatory
> ways e.g., failing to hire and promote him?
>
> 3. how can we understand what you call prejudice as something that does do
> harm? i would think that you'd be concerned about this because these are
> precisely the claims you make: that you are harmed by beliefs expressed on
> this listserv even though they may never result in actions which harm you
> or other men like you in terms of material conditions or your life chances,
> etc. in other words, it's not just white USers problem that they hold
> prejudices; it's also your problem as a man of chinese descent.
>
> young's work is an attempt to delineate the way in which race oppression or
> class oppression works by examining what she refers to as "the five faces
> of oppression" these sort of framework for understanding racial oppression
> might help explain to folks how they are part of the problem (if they in
> fact are) without necessarily being racists in the sense that they
> purposefully set out to harm people through their actions, etc.
>
> kelley
>
> “touch yourself and you will know that i exist.”
> ~luce irigaray