White Leftists, Feminist Guys, & Affirmative Action

[Yoshie Furuhashi]

Katha:
>I don't know, Yoshie -- you write as if some guy saying something you or
>I or kelley might find sexist discourages other women from participating
>and that's a big problem.  But do you have any evidence for that? The
>great thing about e mail is you can just delete the posters you find TOO
>exasperating, and chat with those you find at least some common ground
>or level of congeniality with. the nature of the medium is so remote --
>I think it's actually a good way to grapple with ideas that would be
>very upsetting if they were held by a friend, or a colleague. I've
>certainly been on e mail lists (not this one of course!) with people I
>wouldn't be able to be in a group with, or the same room with.

That's true, and I don't mean to apply to e-list discourse _exactly_ the
same standards that I think should be applied to non-cyber political
practice.  And I don't intend to discourage trial & error, playful banters,
etc. either.  It can be also fun to try to make disagreements productive
(you know I really enjoy & learn a lot from having disagreements with you).
That said, I think in any discourse there are political boundaries, and a
few of the things posted here (as in any e-lists) go beyond the pale by my
standards.  Also, if we want to raise the quality of discussion, we can't
be always rehearsing Feminism 101, Anti-Racism 101, etc. (though it has its
place).  I'd rather see our discussion rise to a more advanced level,
especially on issues of gender & race.

More importantly, I find it annoying, nay, disturbing that some _leftist_
guys think they don't have to do feminist homework before jumping up &
offering their "opinions."  In doing so, they show that their egos are more
important than learning from the accumulated knowledge of feminists
(readily available from libraries, bookstores, experienced feminist
activists, etc.).  It's near the dawn of the twenty-first century, you
know, but sometimes our discussion gets mired in an atmosphere of
pre-2nd-wave feminism.  I'd like to see progress, instead of the eternal
return of the repressed (a bad dream made of Freud & Nietzsche).


>And let's not forget, after a mere day of being walloped for his posts
>re May=December, Brett apologized! It was GOOD that he said those
>things, because then we could talk about them. ( He made me think too,
>btw.)  A sexual slur is one thing -- but a sexist argument (that is, an
>argument I think is sexist)?  I'd rather hear it and discuss it.

Good for Brett, though I missed his apology, perhaps due to the volume of
posts.  I think, though, sexist arguments are more insidious than sexist
slurs (which are easier to counter, for most leftists, male or female, at
least notice them as such, thanks to decades of feminist activism).

going _way_ over the limit & hoping for the indulgence of the moderator,

Yoshie