As a few of you on lbo-list know, and all of us here on the right-left list do on a regular basis, I monitor the far right websites and listservs, as much as I can stomach. A couple of days ago, a snotty message from the Silver Spring, MD. "libertarian socialist" (really a Buchananite, possibly a member of the New Alliance Party, that's my hunch), Bill White, was forwarded to lbo-list. The following post is from the solidarity2 list at egroups.com. It is "Third Positionist" in its neo-fascist orientation. Here is the description on the main page of the group at the host page.
http://egroups.com/group/solidarity2 A list to promote self determination and freedom movements around the world.Solidarity2 is dedicated to the idea of extreme-left/far-right convergence - a process Moeller van den Bruck once called the "courage to live in antithesis". Please check out our affiliated websites: http://www.americanfront.com/ http://www.thirdposition.com/ THE RED-BROWN DIGEST http://www.onelist.com/community/redbrown Third Position Yahoo Club http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/thirdposition THE NR RELIGIOUS FORUM http://www.onelist.com/community/NRreligion
I have faith that Chuck0 and the Black Bloc, can take care of themselves and have advanced capacities to sniff out fascist freaks like this Bill White character. I have alot less faith, that others with less savvy, experience and sophistication, and more prone to simplistic and militant sounding, demagogic varieties of anti-capitalism, will. I hope I have just read too many books on racist, alienated, lumpen youth like Raphiel Ezekiel or William Finegan's, to fear that, if the anti-globalization forces do, in the USA become a mass movement, in the years ahead, that these "third position" groups will be more than the nuisance they are now.
Michael Pugliese
Right-left mailing list (Discussions on Right-Wing Influences on the Left) Right-left at savanne.ch http://coyote.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/right-left ............................................................................ ....
From: wskullhead mailto:skullhead at aol.com Date: Wed Apr 19, 2000 1:21pm Subject: Fwd: Communism At The IMF; What These 5-10% of the Weirdos Had To Say
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:03:24 -0400 From: William A White bwhite at l... Organization: Libertarian Socialist Movement, USA To: lsn at l... Subject: Communism At The IMF; What These 5-10% of the Weirdos Had To Say Communism At The IMF What These 5-10% of the Weirdos Had To Say
April 16, 2000 http://www.libertariansocialist.com/cgi-bin/bbmat.cgi?script=libsoc
Washington, DC -- One of the things LSN loves doing at demonstrations is interviewing communists and seeing what nonsense they are spreading this time. It is, in fact, unfortunate that communism is so doctrinaire; generally speaking, there is very little new nonsense for LSN to report on. That aside, let's see what the Communists had to say today.
We noticed maybe a dozen communist organizations at the event. The International Socialist Organization was the largest, followed by Worker's World/International Action Center, Spartacist League, Socialist Worker's Party, Communist Party, USA, Refuse and Resist!, Worker's Party, Committees of Correspondence, Committee for the Formation of a Revolutionary Party, and so on .. Only four were there in force: ISO, WWP/IAC, SWP and the Sparts.
The ISO had two national branches represented: the US and Canada. Our first communist encounter was with the ISO-Canada. They had some sort of "Smash the IMF" Cover on their version of "Worker's Vanguard." Though the writing in Socialist Worker was notoriously bad, there were two articles of interest, one on Zimbabwe, and one on Tony Cliff.
Apparently, despite the fact the ISO doesn't "officially" like Mugabe, they support the seizures of white land. Why? Good question. They don't explain why, except to say that the land belongs to the poor peasants, and that a revolution can be made by organizing these peasants. Hmmm. No.
The fact is that the ISO hates black people. They hate white people too. They hate all working people. They are college intellectuals, just like the Bolsheviks (one ISO member was actually wearing a T-Shirt that said "Bolshevik"), and they hate anyone who is not rich and can afford college like they do. Therefore, they promote policies that cause working people to die.
In Rhodesia, now known as Zimbabwe, before white people, there was nothing. African tribes brutally murdered each other. They didn't have any agriculture. They didn't have any industry. They had cannibalism and brutal murder.
Then, white people came. White people built mines and farms. An economy developed. Then a white government developed. The white government ended tribalism and cannibalism.
Then, the Soviets came, and they promoted "pan-African national socialism", much as they promoted "pan-Arab national socialism" in North Africa and the Middle East. Mugabe, the Western corporations, and the Western media elite jumped on the bandwagon. Eventually, Rhodesia ended white rule. The ZANU-PF took power. They began to seize white land. All the white people left.
When the white people left, they took with them all the farms and mines they had built. The Africans, lacking any kind of widespread education, and having not been integrated well into the European culture of liberty and republic, were unable to operate the mines and the farms without the white people who built them. Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, saw its economy collapse.
Today, white people own 75% of the land as farms. They also own almost all the industry. That which they don't own is owned by the international bankers who give Mugabe money and keep him in power.
If the land is taken from white farmers by Africans who don't know how to farm, all the farm jobs in the country will disappear. If the industry is taken from white miners and industrialists by Africans who don't understand industry, all the factory jobs will disappear.
Right now, 50% of the Africans in Zimbabwe are unemployed. Being unemployed, they fill their days having sex and robbing people to scratch out money to live. This has led to an increase in crime and AIDS. 25% of Zimbabwe's black population has AIDS. If things remain unchanged, fifty years from now, 100% of the black population will have AIDS. Seventy five years from now, every black person in Zimbabwe will be dead.
So there is a link between jobs, AIDS, and poverty. If you take away all the jobs, people become poor and get AIDS.
What the ISO suggests in their Zimbabwe statement is that the best thing for Zimbabwe is for the poor, uneducated peasants to drive the remaining white people out of Zimbabwe. This means that the ISO wants to see all of Zimbabwe's agriculture and industry driven out of the country. This means the ISO wants to see every black person in Zimbabwe die of AIDS.
Now, what is more racist? Apartheid or genocide? Apartheid is not good; black Africans needed to be integrated into Rhodesian culture, not oppressed by it. But tribal rule and genocide by AIDS? That's even worse.
The other thing of interest in the ISO-Canda newspaper was the biography of Tony Cliff. We got to the first two words. The first two words are "Jewish revolutionary". The first four are "Jewish revolutionary Tony Cliff."
We just want to say that if communists really want people to stop saying communism is a Jewish movement, they should stop pointing out how Jewish they are. We don't go out looking to pick on Jewish people. But if you, say, get up at a meeting with a shirt reading "Young Judaea" and begin to lecture us about how "tolerant" Jews are, we are going to comment. If you write a biography of a socialist and start it by describing him not as a "socialist revolutionary" or a "follower of Trotsky" but as a "Jewish revolutionary", we are led to the inevitable conclusion you believe there is something important about his Jewish-ness. If there is something important about it, expect people to comment on it, and then don't get mad when people start talking about "Jewish communism." If it's not important, shut up already.
Overall, about 300 ISO guys attended, drawn from Chicago to Canada to Virginia, but mostly from New York and Philly. We saw no local ISOs.
The Sparts' cover page is that the Anti-China campaign is imperialism or something. We talked to the Sparts and asked each of their members what the hell was wrong with them for joining the Sparts. They really had no answer, but looked ashamed. None of them had been in the Sparts very long. Suckers ...
The SWP distributed anti-Buchanan literature at the rally, and had a big sign saying "Fight the fascist racist politics of anti-Semite Pat Buchanan." We didn't ask; we just took photos.
WWP had a good scheme going. They distributed several hundred signs reading "Smash Capitalism" and "Freedom for Mumia Abu-Jamal." Many of the signs found themselves being carried by people with nothing to do with the WWP, making it look like they had a significant presence. Really, we'll estimate twenty WWP'ers attended.
There were also many, many little groups with like five to twelve people that we had never heard of. We were having a nice discussion with one Stalinist psycho when she asked if we really supported Pat Buchanan. "That racist anti-Semite?" she asked. "Um ... Yeah!" we replied, obviously offending her. When you encounter someone who gets their opinions on other from the television and the Communist Party, they aren't worth arguing with.
On the Buchanan front, there were quite a few Buchananites there. Two were waving American flags, and one almost got into a fight with some anarchists over it. Others were scattered throughout the crowd.
The Liberty Lobby was there, waving signs about the "Bilderbergers", whoever they are. One guy overheard us talking about them, and then went off to chase them. We think he was the reporter from some "national Jewish weekly" (we didn't get the name) who interviewed us earlier over the Buchanan hats, but weren't sure.
There was a real mix, but mostly there were confused and stupid college kids. Some of our contacts tried interviewing a few. Most couldn't explain why they were protesting the World Bank and the IMF. We've decided, for posterity, in the future we will bring a net-enabled tape recorder to these events. The explanations we got were hilarious. Things like "I just feel it's my destiny [to fight the World Bank]" and "They promote animal agriculture."
Hmmm ... let's see. Animal agriculture. That's PETA's beef. Do you want to know what PETA's solution to animal agriculture is? Raising vegan food. Check this out -- PETA thinks Ethiopians who live on land where crops can't be raised but animals can think Ethopians should be banned from raising and eating animals to raise "vegan" food instead. Do you understand that? Do you understand how much you have to hate Ethiopians to will that millions of them should be denied food because you think it violates "animal rights"? Does this only make sense to us.
The protest was good. Fortunately, there were no real leaders at the protest. This means that the real anti-globalist leaders of the world, like Pat Buchanan, have a big opportunity to turn this into something meaningful.
Go, Pat, Go!
-----
Libertarian Socialist News Post Office Box 12244 Silver Spring, MD 20908
lsn at l... http://www.libertariansocialist.com
-----
PS: Even though it would make us right, we want to say for the record there were more than 10,000 people at these protests, when all were combined. There were about 8,000 on the ellipse. There were about 2,000 outside the World Bank. There were about 3,000 at various intersections surrrounding the World Bank. There were as many as two thousand others just wondering around, or doing their own thing in marching. That means we are knocking down our original estimate of 17,000 to 13,000-15,000 and will stick with that. Communism At The IMF What These 5-10% of the Weirdos Had To Say April 16, 2000 http://www.libertariansocialist.com/cgi-bin/bbmat.cgi?script=libsoc Washington, DC -- One of the things LSN loves doing at demonstrations is interviewing communists and seeing what nonsense they are spreading this time. It is, in fact, unfortunate that communism is so doctrinaire; generally speaking, there is very little new nonsense for LSN to report on. That aside, let's see what the Communists had to say today.
We noticed maybe a dozen communist organizations at the event. The International Socialist Organization was the largest, followed by Worker's World/International Action Center, Spartacist League, Socialist Worker's Party, Communist Party, USA, Refuse and Resist!, Worker's Party, Committees of Correspondence, Committee for the Formation of a Revolutionary Party, and so on .. Only four were there in force: ISO, WWP/IAC, SWP and the Sparts.
The ISO had two national branches represented: the US and Canada. Our first communist encounter was with the ISO-Canada. They had some sort of "Smash the IMF" Cover on their version of "Worker's Vanguard." Though the writing in Socialist Worker was notoriously bad, there were two articles of interest, one on Zimbabwe, and one on Tony Cliff.
Apparently, despite the fact the ISO doesn't "officially" like Mugabe, they support the seizures of white land. Why? Good question. They don't explain why, except to say that the land belongs to the poor peasants, and that a revolution can be made by organizing these peasants. Hmmm. No.
The fact is that the ISO hates black people. They hate white people too. They hate all working people. They are college intellectuals, just like the Bolsheviks (one ISO member was actually wearing a T-Shirt that said "Bolshevik"), and they hate anyone who is not rich and can afford college like they do. Therefore, they promote policies that cause working people to die.
In Rhodesia, now known as Zimbabwe, before white people, there was nothing. African tribes brutally murdered each other. They didn't have any agriculture. They didn't have any industry. They had cannibalism and brutal murder.
Then, white people came. White people built mines and farms. An economy developed. Then a white government developed. The white government ended tribalism and cannibalism.
Then, the Soviets came, and they promoted "pan-African national socialism", much as they promoted "pan-Arab national socialism" in North Africa and the Middle East. Mugabe, the Western corporations, and the Western media elite jumped on the bandwagon. Eventually, Rhodesia ended white rule. The ZANU-PF took power. They began to seize white land. All the white people left.
When the white people left, they took with them all the farms and mines they had built. The Africans, lacking any kind of widespread education, and having not been integrated well into the European culture of liberty and republic, were unable to operate the mines and the farms without the white people who built them. Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe, saw its economy collapse.
Today, white people own 75% of the land as farms. They also own almost all the industry. That which they don't own is owned by the international bankers who give Mugabe money and keep him in power.
If the land is taken from white farmers by Africans who don't know how to farm, all the farm jobs in the country will disappear. If the industry is taken from white miners and industrialists by Africans who don't understand industry, all the factory jobs will disappear.
Right now, 50% of the Africans in Zimbabwe are unemployed. Being unemployed, they fill their days having sex and robbing people to scratch out money to live. This has led to an increase in crime and AIDS. 25% of Zimbabwe's black population has AIDS. If things remain unchanged, fifty years from now, 100% of the black population will have AIDS. Seventy five years from now, every black person in Zimbabwe will be dead.
So there is a link between jobs, AIDS, and poverty. If you take away all the jobs, people become poor and get AIDS.
What the ISO suggests in their Zimbabwe statement is that the best thing for Zimbabwe is for the poor, uneducated peasants to drive the remaining white people out of Zimbabwe. This means that the ISO wants to see all of Zimbabwe's agriculture and industry driven out of the country. This means the ISO wants to see every black person in Zimbabwe die of AIDS.
Now, what is more racist? Apartheid or genocide? Apartheid is not good; black Africans needed to be integrated into Rhodesian culture, not oppressed by it. But tribal rule and genocide by AIDS? That's even worse.
The other thing of interest in the ISO-Canda newspaper was the biography of Tony Cliff. We got to the first two words. The first two words are "Jewish revolutionary". The first four are "Jewish revolutionary Tony Cliff."
We just want to say that if communists really want people to stop saying communism is a Jewish movement, they should stop pointing out how Jewish they are. We don't go out looking to pick on Jewish people. But if you, say, get up at a meeting with a shirt reading "Young Judaea" and begin to lecture us about how "tolerant" Jews are, we are going to comment. If you write a biography of a socialist and start it by describing him not as a "socialist revolutionary" or a "follower of Trotsky" but as a "Jewish revolutionary", we are led to the inevitable conclusion you believe there is something important about his Jewish-ness. If there is something important about it, expect people to comment on it, and then don't get mad when people start talking about "Jewish communism." If it's not important, shut up already.
Overall, about 300 ISO guys attended, drawn from Chicago to Canada to Virginia, but mostly from New York and Philly. We saw no local ISOs.
The Sparts' cover page is that the Anti-China campaign is imperialism or something. We talked to the Sparts and asked each of their members what the hell was wrong with them for joining the Sparts. They really had no answer, but looked ashamed. None of them had been in the Sparts very long. Suckers ...
The SWP distributed anti-Buchanan literature at the rally, and had a big sign saying "Fight the fascist racist politics of anti-Semite Pat Buchanan." We didn't ask; we just took photos.
WWP had a good scheme going. They distributed several hundred signs reading "Smash Capitalism" and "Freedom for Mumia Abu-Jamal." Many of the signs found themselves being carried by people with nothing to do with the WWP, making it look like they had a significant presence. Really, we'll estimate twenty WWP'ers attended.
There were also many, many little groups with like five to twelve people that we had never heard of. We were having a nice discussion with one Stalinist psycho when she asked if we really supported Pat Buchanan. "That racist anti-Semite?" she asked. "Um ... Yeah!" we replied, obviously offending her. When you encounter someone who gets their opinions on other from the television and the Communist Party, they aren't worth arguing with.
On the Buchanan front, there were quite a few Buchananites there. Two were waving American flags, and one almost got into a fight with some anarchists over it. Others were scattered throughout the crowd.
The Liberty Lobby was there, waving signs about the "Bilderbergers", whoever they are. One guy overheard us talking about them, and then went off to chase them. We think he was the reporter from some "national Jewish weekly" (we didn't get the name) who interviewed us earlier over the Buchanan hats, but weren't sure.
There was a real mix, but mostly there were confused and stupid college kids. Some of our contacts tried interviewing a few. Most couldn't explain why they were protesting the World Bank and the IMF. We've decided, for posterity, in the future we will bring a net-enabled tape recorder to these events. The explanations we got were hilarious. Things like "I just feel it's my destiny [to fight the World Bank]" and "They promote animal agriculture."
Hmmm ... let's see. Animal agriculture. That's PETA's beef. Do you want to know what PETA's solution to animal agriculture is? Raising vegan food. Check this out -- PETA thinks Ethiopians who live on land where crops can't be raised but animals can think Ethopians should be banned from raising and eating animals to raise "vegan" food instead. Do you understand that? Do you understand how much you have to hate Ethiopians to will that millions of them should be denied food because you think it violates "animal rights"? Does this only make sense to us.
The protest was good. Fortunately, there were no real leaders at the protest. This means that the real anti-globalist leaders of the world, like Pat Buchanan, have a big opportunity to turn this into something meaningful.
Go, Pat, Go! ----- Libertarian Socialist News Post Office Box 12244 Silver Spring, MD 20908 lsn at libertariansocialist.com http://www.libertariansocialist.com ----- PS: Even though it would make us right, we want to say for the record there were more than 10,000 people at these protests, when all were combined. There were about 8,000 on the ellipse. There were about 2,000 outside the World Bank. There were about 3,000 at various intersections surrrounding the World Bank. There were as many as two thousand others just wondering around, or doing their own thing in marching. That means we are knocking down our original estimate of 17,000 to 13,000-15,000 and will stick with that.
Fwd: A16: The Dying Gasps Of University Liberalism; Bill White
http://egroups.com/message/solidarity2/5937?&start=5925
.