the rest of what you type is, as usual, BS, since i've repeatedly explained my position and provided an example of how to use these categories for the purposes of social research countless times and i recently provided an empirical example of how these concepts can be used fruitfully in creative ways that go beyond the "strata" concept of class and look at how peopel's self perceptions and understandings of who they are are shaped by the *social conditions* of their labor. as you well know the practices people engage in on the job affect their consciousness. they matter. they are material forces in people's lives and as such these material conditions shape their attitudes and whether or not they are developing a cognizance of their objective location or not. and sweetheart, as i've mentioned several times, marx used very similar categories in his own social scientific work in the 18th brumaire to ask the very same questions i was asking and have asked in my research: under what conditions do those segments of the working class start to see their objective interests as members of the proletariat? if you think such work is worthless, fine. i do not. it's sure a whole lot more worthwhile, on my view, than a lot of other crap one might do for a living in academia.
statement paraphrased
>>you're wrong because
>>you don't know anything about me and you don't appear to realize that there
>>are a few working [BLACK/WOMEN/AUSTRALIANS/ETC] people on this list--
yoshie:
>Individualizing & personalizing like you are doing here make any discussion
>impossible (not to mention boring).
.please be consistent and police and miscontrue every word that someone types based on their identity: genx, geezers, australians, women, men, white, black, latino, not american, american, musicians v armchair musicologists. also ignore everything else they've ever typed. oh wait, you already do that. good on you.
afaic, killfile time yoshie where you join rakesh and roger in heading directly for the trash bin.
justin:
>I'm Jewish and I don't presume to speak for the Jews. I don't care if you
are
>a secretary in an office or a welder in a plant, you are not authorized to
>speak for the working class. Who nominated you?
please show me where exactly i said that i was? did you fail to read and synthesize my original post to you where i believe we agreed on this issue?
>As to the comparative point, whether white workers are more racist than
>middle class professionals, I didn't say that and don't believe it--
you most certainlly did say it. you said it in a context where wojtek was maintining that working people's views are such and so about the crim justice system. you took issue and said you'd be more likely to find plausible the claim that working people have racist attitudes, to wit:
"Personally, I doubt your supposition that working people do not care about due process, but if they don't, they'[rew just as wrong as if they have racist attitudes--a more plausible claim, from my reading of the evidence. "
if you were merely talking about white people then such a claim is not simply pluasible, it is unremarkable.
spare me the pretzeling. but if you can'thelp yourself i have plenty of mustard.
>However, as people of the left, we are not in the business of organizing
>white suburbanites. The GOP does a very nice job of that, thank, you. But if
>we don't recognize that there is a lot of racism among white workers, we are
>not going to get off the ground in organizing an important part of our own
>professioned constituency.
did anything about what i posted suggest to you that i didn't recognize it?
did the reports i provide suggest that there was none? no. they suggested that there wasn't a correlation between class and racist attitudes. more education decreases racist attitudes and that's about all they've been able to find.
my only argument was that i think we should ask how oppression works by doing research on how white people construct their privileged positions in ways so as to systematically oppress people and so as to systematically produce and reproduce an ideological hegemony. i said utterly nothing about organizing white suburbanites. perhaps you were confused because of all the talk of white suburbanites who organized during the sixties on the music threads?
kelley