State and Democracy (was Re: Who Killed Vincent Chin?)

[Yoshie Furuhashi]

Daniel:
>Well I might have misread your intent, and sorry if so.  It depends on what
>you mean and imply by saying "without the CCP's repressive management,
>China will probably be "Russia."     If one were to suggest that the strong
>and repressive state is what has "saved" the PRC from falling to pieces,
>this would be wrong.  It has been what has created the conditions of
>possibility of  becoming another "russia"  (with or without a CP in
>place).    It is also highly tendentious to suggest a relaxation of its
>grip would likely mean implosion or the end of its rule, this is the
>paranoid view reflected in much media coverage, and to be sure believed by
>some--hence the absurd crackdown on the absurd Falun Gong/Dafa.

See my reply to Doug on the above.  Just remember that the rise of
capitalism in the West brought with it slavery, colonialism, harsh criminal
laws, religious oppressions, etc.  Even compared to the record of other
late capitalist states, the CCP's rule now is nowhere as harsh as many
other governments' in the periphery at one time or another (where
governments can be said to exist) -- for instance, think of Peru,
Guatemala, Afghanistan, etc.  Perhaps you don't take your own assessment of
China as capitalist seriously and still expect it to act as if it were a
socialist democracy.


>I think we agree on the main issues-- the character of the current CCP, and
>the global if not imperialist pressures and limits placed upon the PRC (not
>least by themselves), and the likely (horrible) outcome were the CP/state
>to "wither" away _suddenly_.  But, moreover, we would *not* use this as an
>argument to legitimate or justify its _unnecessarily_ harsh rule right now,
>let alone to point to it as a necessary (albeit tragic, etc) path to
>development under those "special conditions." (Or do we disagree on
>this  -- I should hope not.)

An objective look at what exists is not the same as an endorsment of it.
I'd defer to your judgment if you could objectively demonstrate the
existence of organized social forces who have the strength to overthrow the
present regime while at the same time resisting imperialist attacks or
attempts at cooptation.


>I am in no position to pontificate
>about this. Ive only been studying the PRC for a couple-three years, and in
>a too unsystematic way, and these questions are not my focus anyway.

You might discuss what you learned from your study.  Should be very
interesting to many people on this list.


>PS   Whom or what do you have in mind when you say socialist opponents of
>the CP.  I am not doubting so much as just querying.  MOre generally, what
>are you reading on the topic, beyond media I mean....Meisner, Huang?

I've been listening to Steve Philion for the last several years, on this
and other lists.  Recently he posted on the Chinese Left, so you might look
it up.

Yoshie