TV PROGRAM TRANSCRIPT LOCATION: abc.net.au > Lateline > Archives URL: http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/s210556.htm
Broadcast: 9/11/00 Florida Fraud
Florida, the sunshine state, may be about to find itself under a cloud of litigation. Some of Mr Gore's supporters say he's been the victim of massive voter fraud in the state. A phalanx of lawyers for Mr Gore and his rival, George W. Bush, have descended on the place, preparing for possible action over the all-important recount. Tony Jones speaks with Joseph Gersten, a former Florida senator, who claims the state has a history of electoral fraud. Mr Gersten, who was once described as one of Miami's most arrogant and ambitious politicians, finds himself in exile in Australia after he became embroiled in a scandal in Miami.
Compere: Tony Jones
Reporter: Tony Jones
TONY JONES: Joseph Gersten, you're a lawyer, a former commissioner of Dade County in Florida and a state senator as well.
There is a history of vote-rigging in that state and I'm wondering what you think Al Gore's team of lawyers are going to find when they start going through these ballots with a fine-tooth comb?
JOSEPH GERSTEN, FORMER SENATOR, FLORIDA: You could find, at the worst, cemeteries voting.
At the very best, you'll find individuals in old aged homes who might otherwise not really be voting or know who to vote for or have the capacity to vote, in fact, exercising the vote in favour of the individual who gets the voter card.
TONY JONES: The question is on what scale could we imagine that happening? Al Gore's team are already talking about some 10,000 votes in dispute. They're talking about unopened ballot boxes and various other things.
JOSEPH GERSTEN: What you might see is people who could deliver, for improper reasons, hundreds of votes.
Now it wouldn't take many of those individuals to compile thousands of votes, which indeed could have an affect on an election.
That's what we may be seeing in Florida now.
TONY JONES: Did you have experience of this sort of vote-buying when you were in politics in Florida?
Did you see it happen? Were you approached yourself?
JOSEPH GERSTEN: I would not be approached directly myself, but my campaign manager was in 1993 approached by an individual who was prepared to sell our campaign several hundred votes.
TONY JONES: How does it work exactly?
I know that in place like Dade County, where you have large numbers of old people, and you alluded to this earlier, this sort of thing is more widespread. How does it actually work?
JOSEPH GERSTEN: Well, firstly, I would not limit it to merely Dade County. You have a very large number of seniors in various counties on the western coast of Florida.
It is a state-wide problem.
In that respect, it will vary from county to county, the extent to which the appropriate authorities would look the other way.
TONY JONES: You say it's a state-wide problem.
Can you give us something of a flavour of Florida versus other states in America? I mean, do you get the sense it's more corrupt, the voting in Florida?
JOSEPH GERSTEN: Well, I haven't run in other states -- I can only give you a flavour of what I've experienced and what I've been told, handed down in the oral history of politics in Florida.
Back in the '40s and '50s, say an incumbent governor running for a second term might call up the sheriff of a particular county and say, "Buford, we're holding your county back and if you'd be kind enough to send up 12,000 votes that would assist us a lot, Sheriff."
And then the sheriff would say, "Of course, Governor."
And low and behold that governor would find himself elected.
I think that the quality of that sort of vote-rigging, if we'll call it that, has changed.
That doesn't mean there won't be dozens, if not hundreds of little sheriff Bufords around the state, and that's 67 counties, who could, say, be assisting in delivering votes in an inappropriate fashion. I would not be surprised to find that in many, if not most counties.
TONY JONES: Would those little sheriff Bufords, or whatever their names are, would they still have a particular loyalty to the governor, who in this case is the brother of one of the presidential candidates?
Is suspicion going to be cast on Jeb Bush?
JOSEPH GERSTEN: Well, I know him, Governor Bush, and I think he has the highest integrity.
I don't think he would look the other way nor do I believe he would have any part of vote-rigging or vote-buying.
When I say sheriff Bufords I speak in a figurative, not literal, fashion. The heads of condo associations, people who find themselves familiar with nursing homes, would fill that role.
TONY JONES: That sort of investigation could take weeks or even months and would therefore hold up the appointment of the highest office in the land and arguably in the world.
Do you believe that Al Gore would press on with that legal challenge if it looked like stretching on for that period or would he stand aside for the good of the country?
JOSEPH GERSTEN: It's interesting. Richard Nixon stood aside when confronted with that particular problem. Times have changed.
Who can say?
There is a point that should be made -- what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
If we are suggesting that vote-rigging is entirely within the province of the Democratic party, I would respectfully beg to differ.
Both parties can play that game.
I think the endemic problem might be best resolved by officials who are spending too much time looking the other way when they should be looking at the phenomena of vote-rigging or buying or improperly influencing elections. That's across the party spectrum.