Genovese

[JKSCHW at aol.com]

I cannot censor the use of any term, but if you think "racist" is a 
scientific term, you are deceiving yourself--it is a slur, even when it is 
true. If you were to read Gevonese or understand Gramsci, or even to read 
what I said about them, you would understand that to say that slaves 
"consented" in a Gramscian sense, as a general rule, is not to say they were 
happy under slavery. Moreover the fact that not all racism takes the form of 
explicit avowals of racial inferiority does not mean that someone who denies 
racial inferiority, like Genovese, is racist. Finally, Gramsci does not limit 
his notions of capitalsim--for one, he applies them expressly to the ancient 
world and theRenaissance, and even if he did, Genovese's genius was in 
extending them to capitalism. 

Do you write your briefs to the court this way, Charles?

--jks

In a message dated Fri, 13 Oct 2000  9:26:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
"Charles Brown" <CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us> writes:

<< 


>>> JKSCHW at aol.com 10/13/00 03:09AM >>>
In a message dated 10/12/00 5:21:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
CharlesB at CNCL.ci.detroit.mi.us writes:

<< You describe his racist thesis in what you say following here. The thesis 
that the slaveowners ruled significantly by consent is a racist thesis.  Not 
revolting and accomodating yourself to force is not CONSENT. Upon legal 
analogy, agreeing to do something under duress is not consent.

  >>

Even if the thesis is false it is not racist. It does not say or imply or 
presuppose that the slaves were biologically or in any other way, say 
culturally, inferior to whites as a race.

(((((((((((

CB:  What you describe is not the only form racism takes. In fact, since the 
Civil Rights Movement the main forms of racism are not in the form of a claim 
that Black people are inferior biologically or culturally. The New Racism , 
since Reaganism, takes the form of denying that one is racist, claiming that 
there is no racism in America anymore , except the reverse racism of Black 
people and other people of color. 

A thesis that slaves significantly consented to being slaves is a warmed over 
version of the slavocracy's own ideology, i.e. that slaves were happy in 
slavery.  The claim that slaves significantly consented to be slaves is of 
the same genus.

((((((

 Moreover, the terms "consent" and 
"coercion" here are derived from Gramsci, who argues that no ruling group can 
long maintain its power by mere brute force ("coercion"), but must also rule 
largely by accommodating, to the extent necessary to prevent revolt, the 
interests of the subordinate groups, and to make a  claim that is at least 
accepted by the acquiesence of those groups, to rule by right. This is 
"consent," and it is compatible with a lot of resentment and resistance to a 
ruling group's rule as klong as that resistance is not fundamental.

(((((((((

CB: Gramsci's theory is more specific to capitalism. I don't recall Gramsci 
applying it to slavery.  Marx , I think or at least Marxists, differentiate 
between the form of rule under wage-labor and under feudalism or slavery. The 
latter involves overt coercion more than the former. The accomodation of 
slaves in the U.S. slavery system was only because of the gross force that 
was made clear to them.

((((((((

 Gramsci's complex notionof consent is partly intended to attack the naive 
liberal idea that mere consent legitimates a group's rule, end of story. 
Gramsci was talking about workers and capitalists, but Genovese extended his 
idea brilliantly to slaves and masters. Moreover, I think he was right. So 
did Malcom X, I will remark,a lthough he did not know Gramsci or Genovese. 
But the ideas are in his writing.

I think it would be more productive for you discuss where you disagree and 
why than to spatter slurs.

(((((((((((

CB: "Racism" is a scientific term, not a slur. You can't censor its use. I 
have discussed at length on this very list. 

Censorship of the use of the term "racism" is one of the main methods of the 
racism of the year 2000. Get up to speed on current theory of racism. Take a 
look at some BRC materials.  Gunnar Myrdal is way out of date and was pretty 
weak when he came out with his book.

 >>