>From: Matt Cramer <cramer at unix01.voicenet.com>
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com
>To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com
>Subject: Re: guns & purses (was Re: guns & crime)
>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:31:03 -0400 (EDT)
>
>On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Justin Schwartz wrote:
>
> > I can find no case satisfying that description under the Westlaw 5th
> > Cir. database or under the S.Ct database for cert granted. More details,
> > like a cite? --jks
>
>Here's the only article I saved. I couldn't find it on Findlaw (I don't
>have an account for Westlaw, as IANAL), but then again Findlaw only seems
>to list decisions, not schedules or dockets.
>
>For the conspiracy theorists, I was unable to locate this article in the
>back issues of the Liberator Online; this is issue 12, and the archives
>stop at issue 10.
>
>Caution lefty friends: don't visit self-gov.org without first being
>prepared for dangerous libertarian ideas.
>
>
>Matt
>
>--
>Matt Cramer <cramer at voicenet.com>
>http://www.voicenet.com/~cramer/
>I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find
>them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too
>obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that
>I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
> -Prof
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:07:25 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Advocates for Self-Government <advo at best.com>
>Reply-To: liberator-request at theadvocates.org
>To: liberator at theadvocates.org
>Subject: Liberator OnLine, Vol. 5, No. 12
>
>
><snip>
>
> THE LIBERATOR ONLINE
>
> June 28, 2000
> Vol. 5, No. 12
> Circulation: over 40,000 in 94 countries
>
> Published by the Advocates for Self-Government.
> Created and edited by Paul Schmidt, mailto:paul at self-gov.org
> Co-edited by James W. Harris, mailto:james at self-gov.org
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> GOOD NEWS, BAD NEWS, UNBELIEVABLE NEWS
>
> by James W. Harris
>
><snip> [This is an excert from a digest of articles - MSC]
>
>U.S. Department of Justice: Americans Have No Gun Rights
>
> The Clinton Justice Department has made its position on the Second
> Amendment shockingly plain and clear: there is no Constitutional right
> to buy, sell or own any firearm, and the government can take weapons
> away from you any time it chooses.
>
> The astonishing remarks came on Tuesday June 13, during oral arguments
> in the case of U.S. v. Emerson in the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.
>
> The case involves a routine restraining order placed on Dr. Timothy
> Emerson, issued while he was going through a divorce. Since 1994,
> federal law has prohibited possession of a firearm by a person under a
> restraining order -- even if, as in this case, there is no threat of
> violence.
>
> Dr. Emerson - who was totally unaware of this obscure federal statute,
> as was the judge who issued the restraining order - was subsequently
> arrested for owning a pistol. He challenged the law. On March 30,
> 1999, U.S. District Judge Sam R. Cummings of Lubbock, Texas declared
> that the statute, because it prohibited gun ownership without finding
> any threat of violence, violated Dr. Emerson's Second Amendment right
> to own firearms and was thus unconstitutional.
>
> The U.S. Justice Department appealed, and the result was one of the
> most dramatic gun rights court arguments in U.S. history.
>
> According to witnesses, Judge William L. Garwood, the senior judge,
> seemed startled by the government's statist interpretation of the
> Second Amendment.
>
> Here are some excerpts from the oral arguments, as recorded by
> observer (and radio talk show host) Tom Gresham:
>
> Judge Garwood (to U.S. Department of Justice attorney Meteja): "You
> are saying that the Second Amendment is consistent with a position
> that you can take guns away from the public? You can restrict
> ownership of rifles, pistols and shotguns from all people? Is that the
> position of the United States?"
>
> U.S. Department of Justice attorney Meteja: "Yes."
>
> Metaja argued that the Second Amendment only applied to members of the
> National Guard.
>
> Judge Garwood: "Is it the position of the United States that persons
> who are not in the National Guard are afforded no protections under
> the Second Amendment?"
>
> Meteja: "Exactly."
>
> Meteja added that even members of the National Guard had Second
> Amendment protection only for guns issued or used in the Guard.
>
> Judge Garwood: "Membership in the National Guard isn't enough? What
> else is needed?"
>
> Meteja: "The weapon in question must be used in the National Guard."
>
> Metaja further argued that the federal government had the right to
> regulate guns and gun ownership because of the interstate commerce
> clause of the Constitution. Because a firearm may have once traveled
> across state lines, the government presumes a gun is somehow involved
> in "interstate commerce," thus giving the federal government
> regulatory power over it.
>
> In response, Judge DeMoss asked, "I have a 16-gauge shotgun in my
> closet at home. I have a 20-gauge shotgun. I also have a 30-caliber
> rifle at home. Are you saying these are 'in or affecting interstate
> commerce?'"
>
> Meteja: "Yes."
>
> Witnesses say the judges seemed very unimpressed with the federal
> government's arguments. At one point, Judge Robert M. Parker
> commented: "You shouldn't let it bother your sleep that Judge Garwood
> and I, between us, own enough guns to start a revolution in most South
> American countries."
>
> A ruling can come any time this year, with the potential to propel the
> issue -including the key question of whether the Second Amendment does
> in fact protect an individual right to keep and bear arms -- into the
> Supreme Court.
>
> (Sources: Neal Knox/Shotgun News; Tom Gresham; WorldNetDaily.com)
>
>"The Constitution shall never be construed..."
>
> "[T]he said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize
> Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of
> conscience; or to prevent the people of the United who are
> peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..."
> -- Samuel Adams, 1788.
>
> * * *
>
> "Good News, Bad News, Unbelievable News" writer James W. Harris is
> co-editor of the Liberator Online. His articles have appeared in
> numerous magazines and newspapers, including The Nation, Reason, The
> Freeman, the National Taxpayers Union's Dollars and Sense, the Atlanta
> Constitution, and many more. He has been a Finalist in the Mencken
> Awards, given by the Free Press Association for "Outstanding
> Journalism in Support of Liberty."
> _________________________________________________________________
><snip yet again>
>
> See you in two weeks! You can contact the Advocates at:
> Snail Mail:
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> 1202 N. Tennessee St. Suite 202
> Cartersville, GA 30120
>
> Phone: 770-386-8372; for orders, 800-932-1776
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> Email: mailto:advocates at self-gov.org
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>
> If you wish to subscribe, unsubscribe, or change your address for
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>
> You can see back issues of the Liberator OnLine on the Advocates' web
> site: http://www.self-gov.org/liberator/
>
> The Advocates for Self-Government is a non-profit educational
> organization. Our purpose is to present the freedom philosophy
> honestly and persuasively to opinion-makers so that they can
> encounter, evaluate, and when ready, embrace the ideals of
> self-government.
>
> Contributions are tax deductible under Section 501(c)(3) of the IRS
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>
> "May it be to the world... to assume the blessings and security of
> self-government." -- Thomas Jefferson
>
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