guns & purses (was Re: guns & crime)

Justin Schwartz jkschw at hotmail.com
Thu Oct 19 20:16:42 PDT 2000


OK, I see. There is no 5th Cir opinion. There is a (lawless, insane, judicially active) district (trial) court opinion, which the government has appealed to the 5C. There were oral arguments in June. Depending on how fast the 5C moves, the opinion will be out anytime from soon to several years. I expect the district court will be reversed. --jks


>From: Matt Cramer <cramer at unix01.voicenet.com>
>Reply-To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com
>To: lbo-talk at lists.panix.com
>Subject: Re: guns & purses (was Re: guns & crime)
>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:31:03 -0400 (EDT)
>
>On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, Justin Schwartz wrote:
>
> > I can find no case satisfying that description under the Westlaw 5th
> > Cir. database or under the S.Ct database for cert granted. More details,
> > like a cite? --jks
>
>Here's the only article I saved. I couldn't find it on Findlaw (I don't
>have an account for Westlaw, as IANAL), but then again Findlaw only seems
>to list decisions, not schedules or dockets.
>
>For the conspiracy theorists, I was unable to locate this article in the
>back issues of the Liberator Online; this is issue 12, and the archives
>stop at issue 10.
>
>Caution lefty friends: don't visit self-gov.org without first being
>prepared for dangerous libertarian ideas.
>
>
>Matt
>
>--
>Matt Cramer <cramer at voicenet.com>
>http://www.voicenet.com/~cramer/
>I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find
>them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too
>obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that
>I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
> -Prof
>
>
>---------- Forwarded message ----------
>Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 21:07:25 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Advocates for Self-Government <advo at best.com>
>Reply-To: liberator-request at theadvocates.org
>To: liberator at theadvocates.org
>Subject: Liberator OnLine, Vol. 5, No. 12
>
>
><snip>
>
> THE LIBERATOR ONLINE
>
> June 28, 2000
> Vol. 5, No. 12
> Circulation: over 40,000 in 94 countries
>
> Published by the Advocates for Self-Government.
> Created and edited by Paul Schmidt, mailto:paul at self-gov.org
> Co-edited by James W. Harris, mailto:james at self-gov.org
> _________________________________________________________________
>
> GOOD NEWS, BAD NEWS, UNBELIEVABLE NEWS
>
> by James W. Harris
>
><snip> [This is an excert from a digest of articles - MSC]
>
>U.S. Department of Justice: Americans Have No Gun Rights
>
> The Clinton Justice Department has made its position on the Second
> Amendment shockingly plain and clear: there is no Constitutional right
> to buy, sell or own any firearm, and the government can take weapons
> away from you any time it chooses.
>
> The astonishing remarks came on Tuesday June 13, during oral arguments
> in the case of U.S. v. Emerson in the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals.
>
> The case involves a routine restraining order placed on Dr. Timothy
> Emerson, issued while he was going through a divorce. Since 1994,
> federal law has prohibited possession of a firearm by a person under a
> restraining order -- even if, as in this case, there is no threat of
> violence.
>
> Dr. Emerson - who was totally unaware of this obscure federal statute,
> as was the judge who issued the restraining order - was subsequently
> arrested for owning a pistol. He challenged the law. On March 30,
> 1999, U.S. District Judge Sam R. Cummings of Lubbock, Texas declared
> that the statute, because it prohibited gun ownership without finding
> any threat of violence, violated Dr. Emerson's Second Amendment right
> to own firearms and was thus unconstitutional.
>
> The U.S. Justice Department appealed, and the result was one of the
> most dramatic gun rights court arguments in U.S. history.
>
> According to witnesses, Judge William L. Garwood, the senior judge,
> seemed startled by the government's statist interpretation of the
> Second Amendment.
>
> Here are some excerpts from the oral arguments, as recorded by
> observer (and radio talk show host) Tom Gresham:
>
> Judge Garwood (to U.S. Department of Justice attorney Meteja): "You
> are saying that the Second Amendment is consistent with a position
> that you can take guns away from the public? You can restrict
> ownership of rifles, pistols and shotguns from all people? Is that the
> position of the United States?"
>
> U.S. Department of Justice attorney Meteja: "Yes."
>
> Metaja argued that the Second Amendment only applied to members of the
> National Guard.
>
> Judge Garwood: "Is it the position of the United States that persons
> who are not in the National Guard are afforded no protections under
> the Second Amendment?"
>
> Meteja: "Exactly."
>
> Meteja added that even members of the National Guard had Second
> Amendment protection only for guns issued or used in the Guard.
>
> Judge Garwood: "Membership in the National Guard isn't enough? What
> else is needed?"
>
> Meteja: "The weapon in question must be used in the National Guard."
>
> Metaja further argued that the federal government had the right to
> regulate guns and gun ownership because of the interstate commerce
> clause of the Constitution. Because a firearm may have once traveled
> across state lines, the government presumes a gun is somehow involved
> in "interstate commerce," thus giving the federal government
> regulatory power over it.
>
> In response, Judge DeMoss asked, "I have a 16-gauge shotgun in my
> closet at home. I have a 20-gauge shotgun. I also have a 30-caliber
> rifle at home. Are you saying these are 'in or affecting interstate
> commerce?'"
>
> Meteja: "Yes."
>
> Witnesses say the judges seemed very unimpressed with the federal
> government's arguments. At one point, Judge Robert M. Parker
> commented: "You shouldn't let it bother your sleep that Judge Garwood
> and I, between us, own enough guns to start a revolution in most South
> American countries."
>
> A ruling can come any time this year, with the potential to propel the
> issue -including the key question of whether the Second Amendment does
> in fact protect an individual right to keep and bear arms -- into the
> Supreme Court.
>
> (Sources: Neal Knox/Shotgun News; Tom Gresham; WorldNetDaily.com)
>
>"The Constitution shall never be construed..."
>
> "[T]he said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize
> Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of
> conscience; or to prevent the people of the United who are
> peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms..."
> -- Samuel Adams, 1788.
>
> * * *
>
> "Good News, Bad News, Unbelievable News" writer James W. Harris is
> co-editor of the Liberator Online. His articles have appeared in
> numerous magazines and newspapers, including The Nation, Reason, The
> Freeman, the National Taxpayers Union's Dollars and Sense, the Atlanta
> Constitution, and many more. He has been a Finalist in the Mencken
> Awards, given by the Free Press Association for "Outstanding
> Journalism in Support of Liberty."
> _________________________________________________________________
><snip yet again>
>
> See you in two weeks! You can contact the Advocates at:
> Snail Mail:
> Advocates for Self Government
> 1202 N. Tennessee St. Suite 202
> Cartersville, GA 30120
>
> Phone: 770-386-8372; for orders, 800-932-1776
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> Email: mailto:advocates at self-gov.org
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>
> If you wish to subscribe, unsubscribe, or change your address for
> receiving the Liberator OnLine, visit:
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>
> You can see back issues of the Liberator OnLine on the Advocates' web
> site: http://www.self-gov.org/liberator/
>
> The Advocates for Self-Government is a non-profit educational
> organization. Our purpose is to present the freedom philosophy
> honestly and persuasively to opinion-makers so that they can
> encounter, evaluate, and when ready, embrace the ideals of
> self-government.
>
> Contributions are tax deductible under Section 501(c)(3) of the IRS
> code. If you would like to support the Advocates, we *welcome* your
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>
> "May it be to the world... to assume the blessings and security of
> self-government." -- Thomas Jefferson
>

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