----- Original Message ----- From: "thoucynic" <thoucynic at crosswinds.net> To: "F. Leon Wilson" <flwilson at infinet.com> Cc: "Jamal Hannah" <jah at iww.org>; <black-libertarians at flag.blackened.net>; <anarchy-list at lists.village.virginia.edu> Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 7:53 AM Subject: Re: cincinatti riots (fwd)
"F. Leon Wilson" wrote:
> Then you need to look deeper into the minds and hearts of these people if
> you only see race as a "component of what's going on."
I'm one of these people.
> It doesn't simplicity what is going on; it is what is going on.
see above, I'm here as well
> Then you are looking at this from an extremely narrow and short side view.
No, I am not romanticizing matters to fit into a narrow world view.
There is a lot of pent up rage and racial tension, Cincinnati Police
have become noted for their "hands on approach" when dealing with black
youth, there is a lot of petty harassment that people of color, black or
foreigners (African immigrants, we have a huge community of Senegalese
and West Africans, as well as Indians/Pakistanis, and many Arabs)
experience, down south across the river in Kentucky things are worse.
That goes without saying, I acknowledge it and have seen it and have experienced it myself, and have a ton of stories about it from myself and my family, much less than my friends as well.
It is not a total explanation regarding everything going on. Shit, some of the looters were not even black, and a lot of the looters simply wanted to fuck things up because they could, I don't underestimate the racial component but I tire of bourgeois academic types sitting around pulling their sympathy for "the people" out of their asses and waving it around for all to smell.
>
> The fact that many will only focus on the so-called Black owned or
> operated businesses
"so-called", heh.
> war in. We must achieve a full understanding of our style of fighting,
> and the courage necessary to defy the occupation forces by showing no fear
> of material sacrifice.
People who mistake rioting for revolution lack an understanding of
both.
>
> The white operated businesses had long declared economic warfare against
> these Black people by long ago withdrawing (sanctions) vital goods and
> services.
>
> > community ventures. These people have been besieged by developer
> > interests, they have only a couple of voices in the city council.
> > who knows what will happen now.
> Then this is where the next phase of the battle lies. This is a
> continuous war.
Next stage ? Its the current stage, one that the communities of Over
The Rhine are loosing, they have few friends on the City Council which,
I'd dare say, is dominated by developers' interests.
> > Its sobering, I was actually smack in the middle of Over the Rhine at
> > the time of the shootings..
> What is sobering is 15 Black Males Killed During Arrests Since 1995
> <http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,7216,00.html>
>
> Since 1995, 15 black males have died while being arrested by Cincinnati
> police or in police custody.
more than half were armed, which says nothing by itself, some were
trying to fire or drawing into fire stances. This doesn't excuse the
un-armed youth who were basically murdered by Cincinnati Police, or the
man who had a brick and was gunned down by, what, 15 or so officers. I
keep myself armed because its not a safe place out there. If stopped by
cops the last thing that I am going to do is draw, much less than run
and draw, because this will of a surety get me killed. Perhaps some
people think that shooting at cops is revolutionary action or warfare, I
say that if you are stupid enough to be armed and arrested and you try
to draw on a cop and you are shot well then fill in the blanks. I don't
trust the cops the last thing in the world that I would want to do is
give them a reason to shoot me, and they need few reasons. Some people
need to get out of their asses and travel, travel to places where people
really are engaged in *real* warfare against the state, and stop
romanticizing thug behavior and portraying it as something its not.
That's my $0.03, many people will disagree with me, that's fine I can live with that.
> 1. Harvey Price, 34, was shot Feb. 1, 1995, while lunging at officers with
> a knife after killing his girlfriend's 15-year-old daughter. Officers
> exonerated.
This is like asking to be shot, the motherfucker killed his
girlfriend's daughter and then lunged at cops, I would have shot him if
I could get away with it as a civilian.
> 5. Jermaine Lowe, 21, shot at police officers who returned fire, killing
> him June 3, 1998. Officers cleared.
Yes, shooting at cops will tend to have returned fire.
> 8. James King, 44, shot Aug. 20, 1999, after robbing a bank and pointing a
> gun at officers. Officers exonerated.
See above.
> 9. Carey Tompkins, 28, shot Oct. 16, 1999, when an officer saw him pull a
> gun. Officers exonerated.
See above.
> 13. Jeffrey Irons, 30, shot Nov. 8, 2000, after robbing a grocery store
> and grabbing an officer's gun. Investigation continuing.
This is so goddamn stupid I won't even comment. Its evolution in
action.
> 14. Adam Wheeler, 21, killed Jan. 31, 2001, in a shootout during a drug
> investigation. Investigations pending.
See above
> Deathly force in the hands of an occupation force is what is sobering . .
.
I agree, people do a disservice to brothers when they drag up murders
and bank robbers, STUPID ones at that, and put their names next to
innocents who were murdered, executed in extra judicial executions.
Something evil is going on, pulling the names of murders serves statist police apologists who say "see, I told you so, all of those thar people are monkey thugs, those coons need'd a killin" So feel free to continue to slavishly serve Sherif bubba jones, Praise the motherfucker who killed a 15 yearold young woman, go ahead continue to serve as bubba's agitprop machine.
But people who are parasites and leach off from their own families and communities, I'm not going to cry if someone kills a 15 year old woman and gets shot. People need to stop romanticizing thugs, thugs do the work on their own people that the police are too afraid to do. Some people deserve killing and some people don't a little shit who kills a 15 year old and is then STUPID enough to aim at cops deserves to be shot. Fuck him, he dug his own grave.
An unarmed brother who runs from the cops because he is scared and is then murdered in cold blood by then DOES NOT deserve to die.
If people think that this is warfare against the state they need to get out more. Or put their money where their mouths are.
>
> > In reality the riots are a lot smaller and more localized than the media
> > is portraying around the country,
> This sounds as if you are apologizing by giving reason and support to the
> propagandized media whitewashing of the true state of this race war.
No it sounds as if I am noticing the media purposefully exaggerating
certain things for purposes that I can only guess at. Wed. night was
*bad*, other than that things have been a lot smaller and more localized
than the media portrays. I can only guess at why.
> > Some folks are monitoring the police frequencies through this, so far
> > over the last 3 or 4 days there have been a few shootings,
> "Propagandized media whitewashing of the true state of this race war."
Shit, what do you know ? Are you there ? Do you live in any of the
communities in which the riots took place ? Does your family ? Have you
been hacking the frequencies and MDT transmissions yourself (its not
that hard) and examining police traffic to see what they are *really*
saying to each other ? If not then you know where to shove your
propagandizing remarks with your know nothing romantic outlook of this.
I touch both sides, I'm not going to ignore evidence for ideological purposes, part of this was a race riot, the cops have been murdering black youth, the numbers of black males murdered and executed this way is under 15, the whole thing is not a race riot but part of it is, and its smaller than what the media has portrayed. If you are in Cincinnati get out there yourself, if not then go to cincinnati and talk to people at ground Zero, in Avondale or Over The Rhine. Don't believe me get off your lazy ass and get a greyhound ticket and see for yourself. You want to paint a pretty picture that is not real because its warming and cuddly to you, life doesn't always fit into your ideology, reality obeys no ideology.
> The above paragraphs tell me where you and many others are coming from.
> I say to all, beware of the treacherous and propagandized whitewashing of
> the true state of this race war.
You are clueless. Again put your money where your mouth is.
Or like Agent Moulder in the X-Files do you "want to believe" ? If you
say "I want to believe" long enough you will start to believe.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BRC or other lists have a different summary of the 15 police killings? FWIW.
What is sobering is 15 Black Males Killed During Arrests Since 1995 <http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,7216,00.html>
Since 1995, 15 black males have died while being arrested by Cincinnati police or in police custody.
1. Harvey Price, 34, was shot Feb. 1, 1995, while lunging at officers with a knife after killing his girlfriend's 15-year-old daughter. Officers exonerated.
2. Darryl Price, 42, died April 4, 1996, after striking his head while resisting arrest. Officers actions upheld.
3. Lorenzo Collins, 25, shot Feb. 23, 1997, after threatening police officers with a brick. Office of Municipal Investigation determined the officers should not be disciplined.
4. Daniel Williams, 41, wounded a police officer, then was fatally shot Feb. 2, 1998. Officer exonerated.
5. Jermaine Lowe, 21, shot at police officers who returned fire, killing him June 3, 1998. Officers cleared.
6. Randy Black, 23, shot July 17, 1998, while threatening officer with a nail-studded board. Officer cleared.
7. Michael Carpenter, 30, shot March 19, 1999, following a traffic stop. After several investigations, Justice Department decides not to file federal charges.
8. James King, 44, shot Aug. 20, 1999, after robbing a bank and pointing a gun at officers. Officers exonerated.
9. Carey Tompkins, 28, shot Oct. 16, 1999, when an officer saw him pull a gun. Officers exonerated.
10. Alfred Pope, 23, shot March 14, 2000, after allegedly robbing and shooting at a group of men. Officers cleared.
11. Courtney Mathis, 12, shot Sept. 1, 2000, while illegally driving a relative's car. The officer who tried to stop Mathis was dragged 800 feet and died. Investigations continuing.
12. Roger Owensby Jr., 29, died of asphyxiation while resisting arrest Nov. 7, 2000; investigation continuing.
13. Jeffrey Irons, 30, shot Nov. 8, 2000, after robbing a grocery store and grabbing an officer's gun. Investigation continuing.
14. Adam Wheeler, 21, killed Jan. 31, 2001, in a shootout during a drug investigation. Investigations pending.
15. Timothy Thomas, 19, shot April 7, 2001, after fleeing officers who were trying to arrest him on 14 warrants, mostly traffic charges. Investigations pending.
Deathly force in the hands of an occupation force is what is sobering . . .
On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, thoucynic wrote:
>
>
> "F. Leon Wilson" wrote:
> >
> > What is happening in Cincinnati this is a RACE riot.
> >
> > It should not be refereed to in any other manner than a RACE riot.
>
>
> Being at Ground Zero here....
>
> Yeah, that's a pretty significant component of what's going on, not
> entirely but there is a significant racial component.
Then you need to look deeper into the minds and hearts of these people if you only see race as a "component of what's going on."
> It simplifies a lot of what is going on.
>
It doesn't simplicity what is going on; it is what is going on.
> There was a lot of simply "lets fuck shit up and take some loot"
> business floating around that had nothing to do with politics or race,
> pure thuggery.
Then you are looking at this from an extremely narrow and short side view.
> Many Black owned or operated businesses have been trashed than
> businesses owned by White non locals. Locally owned and operated
> businesses that were tight with the community. (Though the main
> street dot com and bar yuppie corridor was thoroughly trashed) almost
> ALL of the property damage excepting the afore mentioned race street
> business and a few other businesses was meted out in neighborhoods
> inhabited by blacks, a lot of the overt violence was directed at
> Blacks, neighborhoods trashed were by and large Black or in Norwood
> poor whites. A few local community businesses were spared (including
> one really popular Fish place) but really there were a lot of
> innocents fucked over on the first few days. After that everyone
> locked up early and put plywood over exposed windows so the property
> damage bit sort of died sown. Racial rage was a real component in the
> protests but a lot of the property damage had nothing to do with that.
>
The fact that many will only focus on the so-called Black owned or operated businesses that have been trashed is shortsighted only underscores the depths mis-education still looming in the very streets we war in. We must achieve a full understanding of our style of fighting, and the courage necessary to defy the occupation forces by showing no fear of material sacrifice.
The white operated businesses had long declared economic warfare against these Black people by long ago withdrawing (sanctions) vital goods and services.
> A lot of the property owners and political elements in Cincinnati have
> been planning on running an "urban renewal" campaign through Over the
> Rhine, lots of property bought up in a low volume way, slowly
> rennovated, tennants sent packing, and trendy businesses brought in
> (mostly around main street). Fiber optic cable and telecom
> infrastructure laid in, streets that were formally one way converted
> to two way to route a lot of downtown traffic through certain
> neighbourhoods, splitting them in half effectivly and making the
> property in these coridors more valuable (due to exposure). After
> these riots this process will continue on an accelerated basis.
> Local efforts have tried to stop this, buying and rennovating property
> with community money and putting them to community uses or leasing
> them to business startups and recycling the rent/lease money back into
> community ventures. These people have been besieged by developer
> interests, they have only a couple of voices in the city council.
> who knows what will happen now.
>
Then this is where the next phase of the battle lies. This is a continuous war. A war fought with successive battles with zoning, building and renovating property within the Black community. The things you sight are only battles within one aspect of the war. We must all be resolved and surmount each and every difficulty by staying strong in the struggle and battle on the multiply fronts that exist.
> Its sobering, I was actually smack in the middle of Over the Rhine at
> the time of the shootings, heard the shots, I thought that it was some
> gangbangers at the time... now I know better, pretty sobering now in
> retrospect.
>
What is sobering is 15 Black Males Killed During Arrests Since 1995 <http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,7216,00.html>
Since 1995, 15 black males have died while being arrested by Cincinnati police or in police custody.
1. Harvey Price, 34, was shot Feb. 1, 1995, while lunging at officers with a knife after killing his girlfriend's 15-year-old daughter. Officers exonerated.
2. Darryl Price, 42, died April 4, 1996, after striking his head while resisting arrest. Officers actions upheld.
3. Lorenzo Collins, 25, shot Feb. 23, 1997, after threatening police officers with a brick. Office of Municipal Investigation determined the officers should not be disciplined.
4. Daniel Williams, 41, wounded a police officer, then was fatally shot Feb. 2, 1998. Officer exonerated.
5. Jermaine Lowe, 21, shot at police officers who returned fire, killing him June 3, 1998. Officers cleared.
6. Randy Black, 23, shot July 17, 1998, while threatening officer with a nail-studded board. Officer cleared.
7. Michael Carpenter, 30, shot March 19, 1999, following a traffic stop. After several investigations, Justice Department decides not to file federal charges.
8. James King, 44, shot Aug. 20, 1999, after robbing a bank and pointing a gun at officers. Officers exonerated.
9. Carey Tompkins, 28, shot Oct. 16, 1999, when an officer saw him pull a gun. Officers exonerated.
10. Alfred Pope, 23, shot March 14, 2000, after allegedly robbing and shooting at a group of men. Officers cleared.
11. Courtney Mathis, 12, shot Sept. 1, 2000, while illegally driving a relative's car. The officer who tried to stop Mathis was dragged 800 feet and died. Investigations continuing.
12. Roger Owensby Jr., 29, died of asphyxiation while resisting arrest Nov. 7, 2000; investigation continuing.
13. Jeffrey Irons, 30, shot Nov. 8, 2000, after robbing a grocery store and grabbing an officer's gun. Investigation continuing.
14. Adam Wheeler, 21, killed Jan. 31, 2001, in a shootout during a drug investigation. Investigations pending.
15. Timothy Thomas, 19, shot April 7, 2001, after fleeing officers who were trying to arrest him on 14 warrants, mostly traffic charges. Investigations pending.
Deathly force in the hands of an occupation force is what is sobering . . .
> In reality the riots are a lot smaller and more localized than the media
> is portraying around the country, and Internationally (I've had emails
> from around the world asking me if I was safe). Many of the protests
> have been peaceful with a bit of rioting by a few individuals, most of
> the protests and riots have been confined to Avondale, Eveston, and Over
> The Rhine, with some stuff going on in the city of Norwood. The curfews
> going on have been mostly regarded, there are not a whole lot of people
> going out, period. The first night 125 people were arrested, since then
> things were calmer.
>
This sounds as if you are apologizing by giving reason and support to the propagandized media whitewashing of the true state of this race war.
> Some folks are monitoring the police frequencies through this, so far
> over the last 3 or 4 days there have been a few shootings, (about 3 or 4
> per night) and a few break ins, some kids fucking on tombstones in
> cemeteries (I kid you not) and a bit of stone/bottle throwing.
>
"Propagandized media whitewashing of the true state of this race war."
> According to some eyewitnesses (White and black) The police instigated
> the riots when they roughed up some peaceful protesters, people were
> really doing nothing more than protesting peacefully, there was some
> shouting but things were reasonably clam until some of the police got
> nervous and started forcibly pushing protesters around and roughing up
> some people. Some people snapped, the rest followed. There was a
> peaceful protest organized by the socialist club at the University of
> Cincinnati, had a pretty nice sized turnout from across the political
> and racial spectrum they operated an open mike and anyone with a story
> to tell was allowed to speak.
>
> The impression that I'm getting from folks outside of Cincinnati is a
> lot different from what is going on here.
> The media in Cincinnati have exaggerated some aspects of the riots while
> covering others. The police were definitely on edge the first few days
> and were roughing up anyone in the area, whether they were peaceful
> protesters or throwing stuff.
>
> Cincinnati hasn't had anything like this in decades so reactions are
> pretty mixed. Some people sympathize with them, others have a more "law
> 'n order" type of attitude towards them
>
The above paragraphs tell me where you and many others are coming from. I say to all, beware of the treacherous and propagandized whitewashing of the true state of this race war.
Pray for war and the blessings of victory.
F. Leon