This was precisely the point I was trying to convey. The point I was making that some forms of punishments might be ineffective to alter some forms of behaviour, but that does not mean that punishment (i.e. sanctions) is a pivotal factor in miantaining social order.
>of what Carrol may be reacting to is the mindless belief of many Americans
that
>" the deterrent effect of punishment" will prevent much of the violent and
>harmful antisociality that is very common in the US, much of which gets
called
>"crime." Obviously I recognize that "crime" gets defined in a class- and
I think we are into a much different concept of "punishment" here than that I had in mind when I discussed social sanctions. Here, "punishment" is really a form of sacrificial ritual, akin to animal and human sacrifices of the past. People face something that scares them, but what they cannot fully understand or control. That unexplained, uncontrollable danger scares them even more. In such situations, rituals (see for example work of the anthroplogist Bronislaw Malinowski on Trobriand Islands), especially sacrificial rituals are the symbolic ways of dealing with uncertainty. In that respect, modern suburbanites demanding death penatly are no diffrent than pre-historic tribesmen scarificing animals and people to appease hostile forces of nature that they perceive as threatening.
>consideration on their horizon. My own work, which brings me into frequent
>contact with child abusers, for example, convinces me that punishment has
>little rôle in influencing them.
So what does?
>doing time? The class bias of the criminal justice system tends to focus
>punishment away from the parts of the population where it could do the most
>good.
Ditto. We as society should punish white collar/corporate criminals more consistently and severely.
wojtek